2020 Election - Catch-all Thread

59,238 Views | 1707 Replies | Last: 20 hrs ago by sycasey
golden sloth
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It seems Warren will be the big winner followed by Buttigieg, as they were the second choice of Harris supporters by a margin of 28% and 17%.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/11/14/the_impact_of_voter_second_choices_as_2020_dems_drop_out_141732.html
Unit2Sucks
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Harris would need a lot more supporters for there to be any big winner from her dropping out. She was polling around 4%.

Her exit announcement was a really big copout. She had a fundraising problem because not enough people were interested in her candidacy. Sure there are two billionaires running, but neither of them are polling better than her either. Her inability to distinguish herself in this crowd says more about her than it does about billionaires.
B.A. Bearacus
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Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.

dajo9
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
An old white dude
dajo9
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Watching Deval Patrick's campaign to be Michael Bloomberg's Vice President is just doubling down on sadness
An old white dude
sycasey
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dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
Professor Turgeson Bear
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dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
This is an example of what I don't like about Buttigieg. He says everything he's proposed is paid for?

Really?

HOW?

He says these things, but never offers actual solutions or plans. He just "talks about them." Obama was real good at talking too. I want a do-er, not a talker.
B.A. Bearacus
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calbear93
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Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
This is an example of what I don't like about Buttigieg. He says everything he's proposed is paid for?

Really?

HOW?

He says these things, but never offers actual solutions or plans. He just "talks about them." Obama was real good at talking too. I want a do-er, not a talker.
Sanders has done so much.
calbear93
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sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?
Unit2Sucks
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Professor Turgeson Bear said:


I want a do-er, not a talker.
So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.
dajo9
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calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?
Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.

Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).

The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
sycasey
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calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?

I would concur with dajo that it's probably Biden, not that fiscal conservatism is necessarily my number one priority. It was definitely Clinton's most successful policy.
calbear93
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dajo9 said:

calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?
Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.

Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).

The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
If you want to be snide, don't bother.

If you want to engage in actual conversation, then don't write stupid **** like this. You are not being clever, just an annoying twit.

What do you want me to say? That Reagan, GWB and Trump were not fiscally conservative? When have I said they were? I have always said they were blowing up the deficit and incurring unsustainable debt.

This is the type of stupid **** that makes us draw battle lines and snipe at each other.

Not interesting in a stupid ***** slap fight with you, so just ****ing stop.
Professor Turgeson Bear
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Unit2Sucks said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:


I want a do-er, not a talker.
So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.
Because he's the only one that you can count on to try to do what he says he'll do and he's very specific about what he wants to do. I have no reason to believe Biden is committed to doing anything other than focusing on foreign policy. I have no reason to believe Warren is committed to do anything other than regulate the financial industry, and Buttigieg is vague about what he actually stands for. The rest don't have enough support to matter.

And as for the what has he done, we've already gone over this before. Senators don't sponsor as much legislation as people think. I'm sure Biden has sponsored more than anyone else, but he's also been around way longer than anyone else.
dajo9
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calbear93 said:

dajo9 said:

calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?
Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.

Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).

The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
If you want to be snide, don't bother.

If you want to engage in actual conversation, then don't write stupid **** like this. You are not being clever, just an annoying twit.

What do you want me to say? That Reagan, GWB and Trump were not fiscally conservative? When have I said they were? I have always said they were blowing up the deficit and incurring unsustainable debt.

This is the type of stupid **** that makes us draw battle lines and snipe at each other.

Not interesting in a stupid ***** slap fight with you, so just ****ing stop.
Help me out here. Reagan, GWB, and Trump all ran as fiscal conservatives. Nearly all the fiscal conservatives I know voted for them. They all blew up the deficit and spent recklessly. How many times do we have to live through that before we identify the policy as what people say, do, and support. Fiscal conservative Presidents blow up the deficit and spend recklessly. It's been that way my whole life. Why would any of us pretend otherwise?
calbear93
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sycasey said:

calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?

I would concur with dajo that it's probably Biden, not that fiscal conservatism is necessarily my number one priority. It was definitely Clinton's most successful policy.
And why I truly appreciated Bill Clinton's presidency (and a big reason why I was comfortable with Hillary despite her disingenuous pivot to identity politics at the end). I also appreciated Obama's presidency and his effort to govern all without vilifying half the country (despite the fact that he was more left center on fiscal policy than conservative).

I think Bloomberg is actually the most fiscally conservative candidate and the one I most align with. I could get around to Buttigieg but would need to get to understand his perspective more (not much to go by).
Professor Turgeson Bear
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dajo9 said:


The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?

The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
Professor Turgeson Bear
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dajo9 said:

calbear93 said:

dajo9 said:


Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.

Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).

The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
If you want to be snide, don't bother.

If you want to engage in actual conversation, then don't write stupid **** like this. You are not being clever, just an annoying twit.

What do you want me to say? That Reagan, GWB and Trump were not fiscally conservative? When have I said they were? I have always said they were blowing up the deficit and incurring unsustainable debt.

This is the type of stupid **** that makes us draw battle lines and snipe at each other.

Not interesting in a stupid ***** slap fight with you, so just ****ing stop.
Help me out here. Reagan, GWB, and Trump all ran as fiscal conservatives. Nearly all the fiscal conservatives I know voted for them. They all blew up the deficit and spent recklessly. How many times do we have to live through that before we identify the policy as what people say, do, and support. Fiscal conservative Presidents blow up the deficit and spend recklessly. It's been that way my whole life. Why would any of us pretend otherwise?
Fiscal conservative is a meaningless term.
calbear93
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dajo9 said:

calbear93 said:

dajo9 said:

calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?
Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.

Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).

The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
If you want to be snide, don't bother.

If you want to engage in actual conversation, then don't write stupid **** like this. You are not being clever, just an annoying twit.

What do you want me to say? That Reagan, GWB and Trump were not fiscally conservative? When have I said they were? I have always said they were blowing up the deficit and incurring unsustainable debt.

This is the type of stupid **** that makes us draw battle lines and snipe at each other.

Not interesting in a stupid ***** slap fight with you, so just ****ing stop.
Help me out here. Reagan, GWB, and Trump all ran as fiscal conservatives. Nearly all the fiscal conservatives I know voted for them. They all blew up the deficit and spent recklessly. How many times do we have to live through that before we identify the policy as what people say, do, and support. Fiscal conservative Presidents blow up the deficit and spend recklessly. It's been that way my whole life. Why would any of us pretend otherwise?
Help you out with what, you disingenuous, feckless weasel? Reagan did not win for being a fiscal conservative. Reagan ran on a stronger US in the global platform, fighting against communism, growing the economy and lower taxes. After Carter's foreign and domestic policies, people voted for Reagan because they needed a return to normalcy. All of the former Democrats didn't become neocons because Reagan was a fiscal conservative. They became neocons because they wanted a stronger US against foreign powers. If anything, George H Bush was the fiscal conservative, calling Reagan's economic policies voodoo economics.

GWB won because Gore was such a weasel. I think he would have made a better president, but he was so genuinely inauthentic. And Kerry? No charisma. Trump did not run as a fiscal conservative. He ran as a populist. True fiscal conservative like Koch brothers did not support him. He ran for less regulation, which is not the same as being fiscal conservative.

But you know what, I always feel like I need to wash my hands after engaging with you. Just hope you are not this slimy in real life and you actually do have some genuine side to you.
Unit2Sucks
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Professor Turgeson Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:


I want a do-er, not a talker.
So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.
Because he's the only one that you can count on to try to do what he says he'll do and he's very specific about what he wants to do. I have no reason to believe Biden is committed to doing anything other than focusing on foreign policy. I have no reason to believe Warren is committed to do anything other than regulate the financial industry, and Buttigieg is vague about what he actually stands for. The rest don't have enough support to matter.

And as for the what has he done, we've already gone over this before. Senators don't sponsor as much legislation as people think. I'm sure Biden has sponsored more than anyone else, but he's also been around way longer than anyone else.
Thanks for responding. I don't necessarily agree but now I understand your viewpoint better. I agree that he's been specific for a very long time about what he wants to do. If he wins, I would love to see him involve Warren because I think she could be helpful in pushing his legislative agenda.
dajo9
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Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:


The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?

The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?
Professor Turgeson Bear
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Unit2Sucks said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:


I want a do-er, not a talker.
So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.
Because he's the only one that you can count on to try to do what he says he'll do and he's very specific about what he wants to do. I have no reason to believe Biden is committed to doing anything other than focusing on foreign policy. I have no reason to believe Warren is committed to do anything other than regulate the financial industry, and Buttigieg is vague about what he actually stands for. The rest don't have enough support to matter.

And as for the what has he done, we've already gone over this before. Senators don't sponsor as much legislation as people think. I'm sure Biden has sponsored more than anyone else, but he's also been around way longer than anyone else.
Thanks for responding. I don't necessarily agree but now I understand your viewpoint better. I agree that he's been specific for a very long time about what he wants to do. If he wins, I would love to see him involve Warren because I think she could be helpful in pushing his legislative agenda.
And I'm still concerned about his age. If by some lucky stroke he wins the nomination, he needs to pick a much younger Vice President and one that is generally aligned with his platform because the odds of him making it through one term with good mental acuity are bad enough and two is wholly unrealistic. But still, he could pick O.J. Simpson as his Vice President and I'm still not voting for Trump.
Professor Turgeson Bear
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dajo9 said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:


The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?

The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?
Vote yes for two wars we couldn't afford? Talk about a fat pitch.
dajo9
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Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:


The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?

The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?
Vote yes for two wars we couldn't afford? Talk about a fat pitch.


That's a fair response but voting for the war after 9/11 was the right vote at the time.
Professor Turgeson Bear
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dajo9 said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

dajo9 said:


The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?

The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?
Vote yes for two wars we couldn't afford? Talk about a fat pitch.
That's a fair response but voting for the war after 9/11 was the right vote at the time.
bearister
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Trump and Impeachment - Get the facts on impeachment


https://trumpandimpeachment.com/
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
sycasey
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calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.


This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?

I would concur with dajo that it's probably Biden, not that fiscal conservatism is necessarily my number one priority. It was definitely Clinton's most successful policy.
And why I truly appreciated Bill Clinton's presidency (and a big reason why I was comfortable with Hillary despite her disingenuous pivot to identity politics at the end). I also appreciated Obama's presidency and his effort to govern all without vilifying half the country (despite the fact that he was more left center on fiscal policy than conservative).

I think Bloomberg is actually the most fiscally conservative candidate and the one I most align with. I could get around to Buttigieg but would need to get to understand his perspective more (not much to go by).
Yes, I suppose Bloomberg could be the most fiscally conservative. I was more thinking about the candidates who had any chance of winning.
 
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