BearGoggles said:

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Some pretty fascinatingly polling here

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/HHP_Oct23_KeyResults.pdf

I don't want to derail the thread with the domestic political polling date. The Middle East questions start on page 39.

One take away is that (perhaps expectedly), the responders in the 18-24 demo are confused and/or not bright. Apparently a majority of the 18-24 group think that Hamas 10/7 acts were terrorism and BUT ALSO JUSTIFIED. Lots of other weird answers. The venn diagram would be insane.

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You mean how a very large percentage of Republicans believe that Trump has committed crimes, but they'd vote for him anyways?

"I'd posit that youth today are much smarter than youth of yesterday."

With grade inflation, limited attention spans, unwillingness to put in the time to achieve perfection of their gift or skill, false senses of self esteem, and their fragility and anxiety when they find out not everyone thinks their bowel movements are perfect like their parents told them, if they are smarter, they have little to show for it.*

*Except for my kids, naturally, who were raised by the same playbook my parents used (i.e. Always try your hardest, respect everyone, be loyal, always be truthful, and be accountable for the consequences of your conduct).

Did it hurt your feelies? lol. Talk to me when every main stream outlet isn't censoring President Trump when he speaks. MSNBC "We refuse to play anything Trump says!! Reeeeeeeee"

MinotStateBeav said:

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Did it hurt your feelies? lol.

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Pointing out your hypocrisies never hurts my feelings. Like shooting ducks in a barrel.

BearGoggles said:

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I never said I support Netanyahu or oppose getting rid of him. Its odd that you keep going back to him, as if he's the reason Hamas exists. Did Bibi cause Hamas to massacre people on 10/7 - or did Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Qatar and Iran have something to do with that? You do the "but Bibi" the way many people say "but Trump". Is just a distraction that you can't get away from because you hate him.

But even assuming for the moment that you're correct and Netanyahu supported Hamas for cynical reasons and is a current obstacle to peace. You're ignoring a few keys facts - Netanyahu is democratically elected and, more importantly, can be removed via popular vote (as he has in the past). And he will certainly be done politically after this war because he will be blamed. He's politically dead for good.

There are mechanisms for change in Israel and a large left that very much is pro-peace. Israel has shown it will make peace under the correct circumstances. The right leaning parties are not guaranteed to remain in power - far from it. And of course it was Likud (right leaning) that made peace before.

In stark contrast, Gaza will never change as long as Hamas (which will never hold elections) retains power by force. If you care for Gazans, you should want Hamas to be removed at all costs. I disagree that Hams is militarily "as strong" - but that is irrelevant.

In terms of Iran, this is all traceable to the Obama/Biden policy which sought to normalize the Iran regime and bolster its economy. Iran is behind all of this and many other middle east instability (Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and Hamas). I agree there is/was no coherent policy. Obama and his spawn (which includes Biden) have been too proud and stubborn to admit the fallacy of their policy. Iran's current regime will never change - for many of the same reasons Hamas's will not change (religion and grievance). That doesn't mean we should attack Iran. But we should restore a full embargo and immediately respond firmly to provocations. Iran surrogates (Yemen and Hezbollah) have been launching missiles at US forces. Biden has been passive and Iran doesn't fear him. Trump was crazy - but Iran feared him. And that was important.

The best way to avoid a war with Iran is to make sure Iran understands it will lose. Biden has lost all deterrence and financial leverage. Iran is emboldened and unless the US pushes back, they will continue to exploit the void.

I understand you think there is no "pathway". What is your solution? Israel accepting Hamas as a continued government? The US backing down to Iran's threats? What is your proposed strategy and how does it end?

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I still think you saying I hate Bibi is avoiding talking about the issues I bring up. I don't like Bibi for the factual reasons I stated - I believe he is an impediment towards achieving the most likely outcome to peace - a two-state solution. And I believe that because that's what he has said, that's what his party has said, that's what his governing coalition has said, and that's what his actions, words, and stated worldview supports. I don't like Bibi for the things he has said and the things he has done, your point is that I shouldn't be so hard on Bibi for the imaginary things he can do but has as of yet never done - like form a coalition government with the left and work towards a two-state solution. I think that is utterly fantastical thinking based on events, actions, and words that have transpired.

And yes, I do agree and also think Netanyahu is likely politically dead after this, and is already setting up the IDF to be the scapegoat for the security failure leading to the disaster that was 10/7, so in that sense he's not exactly Mr. Relevant moving forward.

And sure, Likud has made peace before, with Egypt in 1979. Likud also was the dominant political force behind supporting illegal settlements in in the West Bank (or Judea and Samaria as some like to call it) and refusing to support the Oslo Accords. The signatory PM of the Oslo Accords was associated at a peace rally by Yigal Amir, who later voted for Netanyahu in 1996 (albeit he ended up disappointed in his performance). Likud was also made up of members of the Gahal party, which was made up of members of the Herut party, which was made up of members of the Revisionist Part who started out in the Irgun Zvai Leumi, which the British regarded as a terrorist group and which committed multiple acts of assignation and terrorist attacks against British governors and Arab citizens of Mandatory Palestine. How does it go, prior performance doesn't guarantee future results?

You'll get no quarrel with me about Obama and Biden's abysmal foreign policy in the middle east. Perhaps you mistake me as a knee-jerk reflexive 'blame Trump' liberal and think I'm similarly a 'blame Netanyahu' guy too. I'm an equal opportunity hater of terrible political decisions whether they're by Democrats, Republicans, Likud, Labor, DSA, Libertarians, etc.

I think Iran took notes on what has worked and what hasn't worked regarding how to 'beat' US military interests in the region. What hasn't worked was direct military confrontation, as evidenced in Desert Storm, War in Iraq, etc. What has worked is asymmetric warfare where you bleed an enemy dry of resources and will and strategic objectives slowly over a long period of time - even better if done by surrogates not directed tied to a state actor that another state actor can plausibly hit. We've tried our hand at creating our own surrogate militias but predictably Iran with their proximity and cultural similarities has enjoyed much greater success at it than we have. So I agree I don't think we will go head to head with Iran, but I also don't think we will enjoy any moment of going head to head with Iranian backed militias engaging in asymmetric warfare where they unequivocally enjoy the home field advantage.

I don't think even by bringing in tons of expensive anti-missile hardware for small forward operating bases that we can credibly sustain long-term deterrence against Iranian backed militias. We are intercepting missiles made for thousands of dollars with interceptor missiles costing hundreds of thousands of dollars shipped half-way across the globe. The entire premise of US deterrence and defense of these bases in the region outside of the huge mega-bases in Qatar and Saudi Arabia is that the full weight of the US armed forces will rain hell in retaliation upon the attackers. But I think the militias are testing, prodding, and finding that our current force complexion is a paper tiger, and that sure, maybe if you hit one base the US will retaliate fully, but if you start hitting all of them all at once the US cannot credibly sustain effective deterrence. So I guess I don't see how we convince Iran loses when so far Iran is accomplishing their interests without firing on bullet from the Islamic Republic of Iran Armed Forces.

Like I said a few pages ago, I am increasingly skeptical there is a path forward and I'm nervous as hell about it! But I am for the immediate preservation of human life, and while not likely realistic, I think this is the best shot to get there is doing what we can to stop violence today with a ceasefire, and doing what we can to prevent violence in the future, which is establish a just, equitable contiguous Palestinian state with the immediate cessation and abandonment of all illegal settlements in the West Bank, and a broad regional and international coalition of peace-keepers to ensure the safety of Israeli and Palestinian citizens.

Some of this is informed by my view that I personally don't think we can credibly deter Iran or their backed militias given our stretched military and international focus shift out of the Middle East. There is hope in Israel normalizing relations with neighboring Arab countries - imagine the possibilities for more normalization if the Palestinians have a secured, stable, future. I firmly believe that the continued purgatory forcing Palestine openly invites funding for armed resistance from Iran. No, Iran is not the friend of the Palestinians, they are simply using them as a tool against a common 'enemy'. But if that enmity dissipates, it closes the door for Iran using Palestine and Gaza as an avenue from which to weaken and challenge Israel.

The Syrian refugee crisis is already straining the budgets of Arab countries, the last thing anyone wants is millions of more Palestinian refugees from continued warfare, violence, and bloodshed. If Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Libya, Iraq, Kuwait, and the UAE could start openly and freely working with Israel without fear of public backlash, trading with Israel, normalizing relations with Israel, I believe it is Israel's best shot at long-term peace in the region.

Netanyahu speech today:

1. He's not taking accountability for the security failings and wants to punt accountability until after some large protracted War on Terror 2.0.

2. He's re-hashing the people of the light vs. people of the dark de-humanizing genocidal language after deleting it on Twitter after lots of pushback.

3. He's pretty openly trying to expand the conflict of the war to outside Gaza, include Hezbollah, include Iran.

And if we brush this off as who cares what he says, well, the Israeli military's heavy bombing in Lebanon and Syria are striking multiple fronts of Iranian allies, and leaving our exposed military assets in Syria and Iraq at risk. If you're not at least concerned at this point that Israel is trying to convince the US to enter into a US-led war against Iran, you're not paying attention.

____________________________________

Here's the speech:

"All Hamas activists must die, above the ground, beneath the ground, inside Gaza, and outside of Gaza," Netanyahu said. "We are rallying the support of world leaders to support our campaign."

"Hamas is ISIS and ISIS is Hamas. Our war against Hamas is their war as well. Our war against Hamas is a test for all of humanity. It is a struggle between the axis of evil of Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas and the axis of freedom and progress."

"We are the people of the light, they are the people of darkness and light shall triumph over darkness."

"We all will have to provide answers to what happened on Oct. 7, myself included -- but only after the war," he said.

"It is now a time to come together for one purpose, to storm ahead and achieve victory with joint forces in a profound belief in our justice, a profound belief in the eternity of the Jewish people, we shall realize the prophecy of Isaiah. There will no longer be stealing at your borders and your gates will be of glory. Together we will fight, together we will win,"

IDF leadership has serious questions to answer, including the lack of intell, preparedness, and not heeding local warning(s). Were top individuals tied up with Russia / Ukraine?

For Biden to say "I have no notion if Palestinians are telling the truth...I'm sure innocents have been killed & it is the price of waging war" is effectively telling the IDF that mass civilian casualties are OK because we won't believe the numbers anyway and hey "it is the price… https://t.co/Paegqs7zle pic.twitter.com/M1JCc8EYpI

— Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) October 25, 2023

MinotStateBeav said:

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Did it hurt your feelies? lol. Talk to me when every main stream outlet isn't censoring President Trump when he speaks. MSNBC "We refuse to play anything Trump says!! Reeeeeeeee"

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Nobody has ever gotten more coverage of what they say in the history of the world than Traitor Trump. But you have made it clear you are fine with the right kind of censorship and your previous blatherings about free speech are meaningless.

QUESTION: Are Israelis operating within the rules of war that you talked about being so important?

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: pic.twitter.com/Hho6fD8oxs

— Matt Orfalea (@0rf) October 26, 2023

movielover said:

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How does this all work when Palestinian children are taught that Jews are monkeys, and part of their official manifesto is the complete destruction of Israel?

My understanding is that the relatively recent Black September (PLO, 1970) is an example of why no other Arab countries want to welcome them. And over $1 Billion in funds sent to help them ended up with Arafats family, which was living in Paris?

One person floated the idea of giving the Sinai to the Palestinians ... President Trump made progress with the Abraham Accords.

A sober Colonel Douglass McGregor is not happy with the war drums beating in DC, and believes we should save Israel from herself. He claims we lost some Special Ops forces in Gaza, that Hezbollah has 130,000 missiles, that Iran has invested heavily in missile technology, and that if this thing starts spreading, Russia may jump in. Ugly.

Ep. 33  Looks like we’re actually going to war with Iran. Are we ready for this? pic.twitter.com/Ap09hWnvnj

— Tucker Carlson (@TuckerCarlson) October 23, 2023

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movielover,

1.) Yes, there is deep seated hatred, resentment, and dehumanization by both sides. We could easily devote the rest of our lives to chronicling and documenting the animosity.

There are viral TikTok trends sweeping through Tel Aviv of "Get Ready With Me (GRWM)" videos, a popular format where people film themselves getting ready for the day, dressing, eating breakfast, putting on makeup, packing their purse, etcl Only in this current rendition, young Israeli women douse themselves in ketchup as fake blood, blacken out their teeth, wear black eye makeup and hijabs, and use baby powder to mimic explosions, and openly mock the bombing, death, and despair facing women in Gaza, mocking how they're preparing to die and have no food, clothes, or belongings to pack.

There are videos of illegal Israeli settlers in Hebron, a Palestinian town, harassing Palestinians with protection from IDF troops, and throwing so much rocks and trash at Palestinians in a marketplace from above that they've installed wired netting to catch the trash and change the trajectory of rocks that rain down on people trying to buy and sell at a marketplace in a Palestinian town.

Because the actions of some Israelis are vile and despicable does not mean that all Israelis are animals and sociopaths, and it does not mean that all Israelis deserve to die or live under constant threat. Similarly, because some Palestinians sow hatred and division does not mean that all Palestinians deserve to be bombed to death, deserve to be deprived of self-determination, denied of dignity, denied of statehood, and live in constant apartheid oppression.

2.) One big thing to keep in mind is that it's not like this is just a history of Arabs vs. Israelis, and the Arabs nationalities are just formalities that are otherwise interchangeable. It's not like the Arabs were all uniting and joining together as one big super-friend coalition to save the Palestinians or fight the Jews out of religious or racial hatred. Britain basically dropped a unilateral plan for what they think the region *should* be after they took it from the Ottoman Empire, and encouraged Jewish migration (they said it should be one part Jewish state, one part new Arab state, one part internationally independent Jerusalem). After this declaration, they basically removed their troops and let the locals have it out. After all, this was territory occupied by the Ottoman Empire for 400 years, then occupied by the British Empire, and now for the first time in a long time, it was relatively speaking up for grabs - a big power vacuum.

The Palestinians have been left out to dry by Egyptian incompetence, belligerence, and illusions of regional grandeur. The Palestinians have been left out to dry by kings and monarchies that continue today in Jordan, in Saudi Arabia that are more interested in placating their Arab populace publicly and working to normalize relations with the west in private in order to hold onto power. The Palestinians have been left out to dry by the international community that is constantly working to establish regional or international supremacy and dominance and sees them more as a bargaining chip than a people. The Palestinians have endured and ongoing, inhumane, illegal occupation of their land, and are further from statehood at this point than at any other. There is no solution that will offer long-term peace other than a Palestinian state. We have tried in the past to 'stamp out' extremism and radicalism and it never goes well! It's a non-stop game of whack-a-mole. Knock down the PLO and Hamas pops up. Knock down Hamas and surely something else will pop up too. These are millions of people without a state, without hope, without a path forward. What would you do if you were in their shoes? Peacefully protest? They've tried that and got their knees shot out. Appeal to regional allies? They've tried that and have been abandoned by leaders more interested in retaining power than pursuing justice. Leave? They can't, it's a ****ing open air prison embargoed by land sea and air. Are two million Gazans supposed to sit in their 140 square mile strip, drink contaminated water even in peacetime, deal with inadequate nutrition and healthcare. even in peacetime, deal with rampant unemployment, limited economic opportunity, and wait patiently while the Israeli defense industry uses it to test new and higher tech population control mechanisms. For Israel to see how people respond to oppression, for Israel to decide to put Gaza on a 'diet', for Israel to decide to order a new operation to 'mow the lawn' and kill a few thousand with bombings to keep people in check. Would you tolerate that? It's been years. You cannot deny millions of people hope, offer them nothing, and be shocked when they try to escape their cage. It's basic human nature.

3. Regarding Black Friday of 1970, like everything, there's so much history and context leading up to that.

Lots of competing factions were formed in the rush for securing territory on the Arab side leading up to the 1948 War.

-Arabs residing in Mandatory Palestine largely created the Holy War Army for self-determination and to eliminate the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel.
-The Arab League, comprised of neighboring Arab countries, created the Arab Liberation Army, headquartered to the north out of Damascus, Syria.
-The Arab Legion, a military-police force based out of Jordan, came with the intention to annex the West Bank for Transjordan, which was successfully completed in 1950.
-Meanwhile, in Gaza, Egypt Egypt established the 'All Palestine Protectorate' supported by other Arab League members meant to provide Palestinian governance for all of Palestine.

Spoiler, the various Arabian coalitions largely lost, with only Jordan's Arab Legion achieving 'success' as defined by not having secured any Arab territory successfully in what had previously been Mandatory Palestine, and Gaza was given to Egypt as part of a ceasefire. So then what happened?

West Bank: In 1950, Jordan's king extended the right of full citizenship to Palestinians living in the West Bank, which was largely accepted by most Palestinians following the 1948 Jericho Conference. This however was largely opposed by other members of the Arab League - notably Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and others, and some Palestinian dissidents. It also proved to be somewhat risky for Jordan, as Jordan was now comprised of 2/3rds Palestinians on the West and East Bank, and 1/3rd Jordanians. However, again, most Palestinians largely supported Jordanian representation of Palestinians and they were granted citizenship and representation.

Gaza: As part of the negotiated ceasefire following defeat, Israel left Gaza to be occupied by Egypt's king, and the 'All Palestine Protectorate, which governed remotely from Cairo and was not seen as locally relevant or legitimate. It was basically used as political football to undermine Jordan's claim to represent the Palestinian people, at the expense of the self-determination of the Palestinian people, who, in the absence of full self-determination, had largely coalesced around Jordanian rule following the 1948 war.

Egypt's kingdom then fell in 1952 with rising anti-western sentiment and Arab nationalism, creating the Arab Republic of Egypt. Egypt feared the Hashemite kingdoms of Jordan and it's emerging alliance with Iraq were gunning for Arab supremacy and cozying up to the British, and made a series of aggressive bets in an attempt to ensure Egyptian supremacy of the Arab world largely centered around eliminating western influence, which was coalescing in Iraq and Jordan.

Palestinians remained divided and without a state. While in purgatory, especially on the Gaza front where no path to citizenship was clear, they launched many fedayeen attacks against Israeli occupation of land that had been theirs as little as 10-15 years ago, which Israelis would describe as terrorist attacks, and which others may describe as freedom fighters. In response to these attacks, in 1955 Ariel Sharon led an attack against the Egyptian Army's headquarters in Gaza, despite the fact that Egypt at this point under their new president had been pursuing normalized relations with Israel and had been negotiating peace and working to prevent fedayeen attacks. This perceived betrayal by Israel opened the floodgates, and Egypt's President stopped trying to reign in fedayeen attacks, and instead openly encouraged and funded them both out of Gaza and in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan.

Critically, the US had been planning to support Egyptian dominance in the region in exchange for their support against soviet communist expansion, and even tried to bribe President Nasser with billions. He took the bribe and did little to hold up his end. The US had even sided with Arab states in many smaller dust-ups against Israel in the early 1950s in an attempt to side with Egypt and curry their favor, as some US diplomats saw Egypt as the lynchpin to the middle east. However, Egypt's president was not willing to play ball as much as Saudi's king. But the US was interested in ensuring Egypt didn't start buying arms from the Soviet Union, and the US also claims to have been interested in limiting arms sold to the region in general, to avoid military escalation (that policy clearly has gone smashingly), so they continued closer relations with Egypt than did Britain or France.

Meanwhile, Britain signed the Baghdad Pact in 1955 with Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, and with the King of Jordan's tacit support, though he did not formally sign due to domestic pressure fomented by Egypt. This placed potential regional supremacy with the Hashemite Kingdom, who at this time ruled over Iraq and Jordan.

So England was arming up the Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Turkey north and east side of the Middle East, France was arming up the Israeli side, and Egypt was getting armed up by the Soviet side, which is what the US cared about and wanted to stop, so they tried to diplomatically engage with Egyptian President Nasser. He demanded a Palestinian right to return, for Egypt to annex the southern half of Israel, and for a boatload of US military and economic aid. From what he was asking for, it was likely he was never negotiating in good faith, and never had any intention of stopping his attacks on Israel if he got what he wanted.

This was basically the end of any chance at peace Palestinians in Gaza had. Now that the UK pivoted away from Egypt, Israel immediately ramped up their attacks of Gaza and the Sinai peninsula, and in concert with France and England, used Egypt's blockade of the Suez Canal as reason to invade Gaza, the Sinai peninsula, and the Suez Canal in the 1956 Suez War. France had become a close ally of Israel's - Israel had supported France's African logistical colonial ambitions, partnered on nuclear research, and became a major purchaser of French arms, and England at this point was fed up with President Nasser and considered him public enemy number one. So they united with a common enemy with their own three unique interests.

The canal was rendered useless for months as a result of over 40 destroyed ships. The French and British and Israelis faced a tremendous amount of international pressure to dis-engage, and the end result was a lot of national embarrassment in England and France and an opportunity for the US to arise as the lone dominant regional and global player in diplomacy at the expense of Britain and France.

Following the 1956 Suez War, where France and Britain cemented Egyptian dis-taste of western influence, Egypt created the United Arab Republic in 1958 with Syria and occupied Gaza. The hope was that this would become a pan-Arab state. Only the monarchy countries - chiefly Jordan and Saudi Arabia, were none too thrilled by this prospect. Nasser got greedy and didn't treat the Syrians as equals, and eventually they split. Jordan made a short-lived alliance state with Iraq, which failed in a year because of revolutionary sentiment in Iraq, and Iraq then supported the United Arab Republic. Palestinians in Gaza briefly had hope for self governance with the Palestinian Liberation Organization in 1964, but Nasser never ceased any authority to it.

Egypt then blocked the Straits of Tiran this time against Israel, and Israel launched the Six Day 1967 war in response. A week prior to hostilities, Jordan signed a defensive pact with Egypt. Jordan's king was partly influenced to join the war with Egypt because of disproportionate Israeli responses to bombings by Palestinians in Jordan. In response to a Palestinian attack, Israel bombed Jordanian As-Samu, killing 15 Jordanian soldiers, three civilians, and destruction of much of the village. This village had nothing to do with any attack on Israel, and Jordan's king had been working in good faith with Israel to promote peace and minimize Palestinian attacks.

So the IAF kicked off the pre-planned Six Day War, launched pre-emptive attacks on Egypt and decimated their air force. The IDF won convincing victories against the Egyptian army, and Jordan, having just signed a peace treaty, defended the West Bank and East Jerusalem with support from Iraqi troops. The IDF achieved decisive victories on all front, and occupied the West Bank, which at that point had been part of the Jordanian state, occupied the Gaza Strip, which at that point, had been occupied by Egypt, and occupied the Golan Heights from Syria.

Since then, Israel has pursued policies to keep Gaza and the West Bank politically separated and divided. Israel has aggressively supported illegal settlements (if these were Arab 'settlers' they'd likely be branded terrorists) in the West Bank, and has viewed Jordan as a de-facto Palestinian state. The long-term play was to slowly but surely take over the West Bank through occupation and settlement, and ideally have the Palestinians leave to the East Bank in Jordan, and to keep Gaza in purgatory indefinitely. The King of Jordan negotiated in secret with Israel, as he was keen to retain his power without upsetting his kingdom, which up to that point had been 2/3rds Palestinians 1/3rd Jordanians, but was now back to a 50/50 split with Israel's occupation of the West Bank.

Having previously had a path towards full and equal citizenship in Jordan on Palestinian land before Israel's occupation of the West Bank, the PLO focused their attacks on the occupied West Bank, to regain territorial claim of their land.

To say that 1970 proves that Jordan doesn't want Palestinians is to completely ignore and deny the history leading up to 1970 - Palestinians in the West Bank weren't even Jordanian citizens at that point! They had been, but now they were under Israeli occupation!

Jordan finally relinquished any claim in the 80's, and slowly unwound any remaining administrative ties to support the PLO and an independent Palestine, leading to the normalization of Jordan and Israeli relations in the 90s, but leaving the West Bank still occupied.

We are witnessing in real time the slow motion liquidation of a people and a national identity.

4.) We are complicit in the atrocities being committed and are rapidly depleting what little moral authority we as a nation had left. In 1956, when Israel, England, and France attacked Egypt, the United Nations, with the full-throated backing of United States of America, threatened severe economic sanctions on England if ONE CIVILIAN LIFE was killed in the bombings. Can you imagine? How quickly and how far we have fallen.

wifeisafurd said:

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Apparently the US is bombing Iranian troop positions in Syria for rocket attacks against US facilities in the mideast, for those who thought it would be Israel that broadened the war.

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Israel did broaden the war.
They took out their rage against the actions of 2-3000 on 2 Million.

What a bummer to be a non-voting resident of Gaza.

oski003 said:

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concordtom said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Apparently the US is bombing Iranian troop positions in Syria for rocket attacks against US facilities in the mideast, for those who thought it would be Israel that broadened the war.

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Israel did broaden the war.
They took out their rage against the actions of 2-3000 on 2 Million.

What a bummer to be a non-voting resident of Gaza.

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You are implying that the citizens of Gaza are hostages and not participants of their government. Shouldn't someone then take out their government?

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Yes.
Is exploding everyone's homes and killing a bunch of random citizens, including children, the way to do that?

Remember when the US leveled Dresden, fire bombed Tokyo and nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Hmmmm. There's just GOT to be a better way!!