sycasey said:

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CaliforniaEternal said:

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If you support the Palestinians you are a death cult supporter. There's no salvaging Gaza unless you clear it out and completely disarm the place.

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Thanks for your input. Super useful reply.

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You think there's any other way to avoid more civilian casualties than to completely clear out Gaza when the war resumes? Or do you want the death cult to resume the battle hiding among their own children? It seems like you leftists prefer the second option.

tequila4kapp said:

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Well Duh. They were just invaded, had civilians killed, kidnapped and tortured and they see civilian Palestinians celebrating as Israeli prisoners are paraded about. Who in their right mind see that and says "yeah, let's negotiate with them to be our permanent neighbors. They seem trustworthy and likely to be good neighbors."

They tried this path years ago when they forcibly removed Israeli's from Gaza in the land for peace deal. They got the October massacre as Thanks.

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There never was an Israeli "land for peace" deal that featured a viable Palestinian state.

Israelis never had an interest in a 2 state solution since the beginning (1880s). pic.twitter.com/t2VXKaIdQk

— Use Yandex Search Engine for Anti Zionist searches (@Use_Yandex) January 29, 2025

BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Well Duh. They were just invaded, had civilians killed, kidnapped and tortured and they see civilian Palestinians celebrating as Israeli prisoners are paraded about. Who in their right mind see that and says "yeah, let's negotiate with them to be our permanent neighbors. They seem trustworthy and likely to be good neighbors."

They tried this path years ago when they forcibly removed Israeli's from Gaza in the land for peace deal. They got the October massacre as Thanks.

---

There never was an Israeli "land for peace" deal that featured a viable Palestinian state.

Israelis never had an interest in a 2 state solution since the beginning (1880s). pic.twitter.com/t2VXKaIdQk

— Use Yandex Search Engine for Anti Zionist searches (@Use_Yandex) January 29, 2025

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Except the Israeli's have made several offers for a two state solution that were rejected by Arafat. That is a verifiable fact.

You just pile lie after lie after lie. Truly remarkable.

If the Palestinians laid down their weapons and acknowledged Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, there would be a Palestinian state. Instead, the have a toxic culture - accurately described as a death cult - where they prefer dead Palestinians over peace with Jews.

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None of these offers were viable, according to Mearsheimer, and also Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was part of the negotiation process and one of the most prominent US diplomats/policymakers in the past several decades.

For the folks bringing up 2000 https://t.co/1hCdbFXmxW

— Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) December 16, 2023

tequila4kapp said:

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The Palestinians weren't just offered land in exchange for peace, THEY HAVE THAT LAND right now. Israeli's were forcibly removed from their homes in Gaza. Israeli police / military were removed. It is lunacy to say that a real offer was never made.

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Yes, Zbigniew Brzezinski and John Mearsheimer are LUNATICS for laughing at the notion that the Palestinians were offered a viable peace plan, and you, Tekillaforkapp, are the sane, learned impartial observer here dispensing the truth.

Cal88 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Well Duh. They were just invaded, had civilians killed, kidnapped and tortured and they see civilian Palestinians celebrating as Israeli prisoners are paraded about. Who in their right mind see that and says "yeah, let's negotiate with them to be our permanent neighbors. They seem trustworthy and likely to be good neighbors."

They tried this path years ago when they forcibly removed Israeli's from Gaza in the land for peace deal. They got the October massacre as Thanks.

---

There never was an Israeli "land for peace" deal that featured a viable Palestinian state.

Israelis never had an interest in a 2 state solution since the beginning (1880s). pic.twitter.com/t2VXKaIdQk

— Use Yandex Search Engine for Anti Zionist searches (@Use_Yandex) January 29, 2025

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Except the Israeli's have made several offers for a two state solution that were rejected by Arafat. That is a verifiable fact.

You just pile lie after lie after lie. Truly remarkable.

If the Palestinians laid down their weapons and acknowledged Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, there would be a Palestinian state. Instead, the have a toxic culture - accurately described as a death cult - where they prefer dead Palestinians over peace with Jews.

---

None of these offers were viable, according to Mearsheimer, and also Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was part of the negotiation process and one of the most prominent US diplomats/policymakers in the past several decades.

For the folks bringing up 2000 https://t.co/1hCdbFXmxW

— Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) December 16, 2023

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Those are minority opinions which you quote as fact and without any explanation. The real reason the proposals weren't was because the Palestinians didn't accept them because they are not willing to accept a two state solution where Israel is a Jewish state. Full stop. And then Arafat started an Intifada which effectively killed the peace process for generations.

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It doesn't matter if Israel is Jewish to the Palestinians, as a matter of fact they have had a local Jewish population as well as a large Christian minority before the Zionists took their land and concentrated them in reservations representing around 10% of their original land.

It doesn't matter if the Zionists are Jewish, Hindus, Presbytarian or Martian, the problem is that they established a colonial project on top of an existing country and drove the natives out through a series of bloody massacres and a massive ethnic cleansing projects, including the one ongoing. This is the basic truth that you are trying to gaslight away with your fake weaponized passive aggressive victimhood.

Quote:

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You consistently defend Hamas and can't criticize the worst Hamas' behavior without a "but Israel." You have nothing to say about their ghoulish and abhorrent treatment of hostages - or for that matter that they took hostages including infant children. Hamas started a war and all of the Palestinian suffering follows from that. Your refusal to acknowledge that condemns the Palestinians to more suffering.

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The war started in 1948, with a long series of massacres committed by the Israelis that dwarf the events of October 7.

I could not imagine telling such horrors while smiling and laughing.

Retired Israeli veterans tell stories of murder, rape and oppression of Palestinians proving this has been going on for far longer than October 7th... pic.twitter.com/iqlqdM0Sji

— Noctis Draven (@DravenNoctis) January 7, 2025

‘Throw your son into the oven’

On this day in 1948, Zionist militias committed one of the worst massacres of the Nakba in Deir Yassin, Palestine🇵🇸. Here is a survivor of the massacre recounting how Zionist militias threw a father and son into an oven. https://t.co/o93DuEo2ss pic.twitter.com/MYZDZIMPPU

— Afshin Rattansi (@afshinrattansi) April 9, 2024

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As a reminder, you are a supporter of the group that takes babies as hostages and recently held a parade to celebrate the death of those babies.

You're the one gaslighting on history. The Palestinian leadership has not accepted Israel as a Jewish state. Many oppose the existence of Israel in any form - Hamas being a notable example. And as to the others (PA), by insisting on a "right of return", they are implicitly rejecting the continued existence of Israel as Jewish state.

And you are wrong, the history did not start in 1948 - when incidentally the surrounding Arab states all attacked Israel (something you ignore). Fighting literally goes back centuries when the Arab/Muslim armies conquered Jerusalem - the Arabs were the original colonizers/imperialists/conquerers. Al Aqsa is literally built on top of a Jewish Temple - what does that tell you about history? Who was there first? Who established a "colonial project"?

We know the Jews have been in Israel (Judea and Samaria) for literally thousands of years. In contrast, there has NEVER been a Palestinian state.

Beyond that, in modern times there has been fighting and attacks on both sides. Pre-1948, there was fighting. For example, the Hebron Massacre in 1923. According to you, Jews were the only ones fighting or attacking. It is not only false, but silly.

You deny Palestinians all agency - and therefore absolve them of any responsibility for their own actions and inactions. Hamas attacked Israel on 10/7 and intentionally massacred hundreds of innocent people. They took babies as hostages. Even if in your warped mind that was somehow justified (it is not), then Israel's reaction is also fully justified. Hamas and the Palestinians could have returned the hostages and stopped fighting - they decided not to. Israel is under no obligation to surrender - no country would do that.

Your type of thinking and whitewashing of history ultimately harms the Palestinians. They will suffer as long as people like you advocate for actions/inactions that perpetuate suffering.

tequila4kapp said:

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Cal88 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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The Palestinians weren't just offered land in exchange for peace, THEY HAVE THAT LAND right now. Israeli's were forcibly removed from their homes in Gaza. Israeli police / military were removed. It is lunacy to say that a real offer was never made.

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Yes, Zbigniew Brzezinski and John Mearsheimer are LUNATICS for laughing at the notion that the Palestinians were offered a viable peace plan, and you, Tekillaforkapp, are the sane, learned impartial observer here dispensing the truth.

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Per Unherd, "Mearsheimer … said that Israel hasn't been interested in a two-state solution since Camp David in 2000." Your posted video of Brzezinski has him claiming the 2000 offer was not good. Thus, your two cited experts are in opposition on the question of the viability of Israeli offers in 2000.

You cling to B and M as if they are Oracles. But M has been seriously accused of anti-semitism as far back as 2011 and in 2006 co-authored a piece critical of the "Israeli Lobby," in part because they get their money all at once which allows them to collect interest on the money, which not so subtlety ties into obvious anti-Semitic tropes. B is Russian. Russia has been anti-Israel since at least the 1960s/1970s conflicts with Egypt. B inherently sees the world through that prism. You cling to these two anti-Israelis as authorities, fully ignoring their obvious bias and persisting as if only their two opinions can be right.

But all that aside, I referenced Israeli's exit from Gaza in 2005 (again, your B video references 2000) as a valid attempt at a land for peace deal by Israeli. Israel forcibly removed 9k Israelis and moved back to the 1967 Green Line (IIRC) in August of 2005 (Palestinian terrorists fired rockets into Israel hours later; they captured an Israeli army construct in a cross border raid months later; they fired nearly 1k rockets into Israel in 2006). For context, this was connected to ending the 2nd Intifada. Palestinians have had the land since 2005. Palestinians have had self government since 2005. Palestinians have continuously attacked Israel from Gaza. This is indisputable.

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I don't disagree that these guys have their biases (especially Mearsheimer), but Brzezinski is Polish and not Russian, right?

Fair enough. I got a little triggered and kinda got sideways there. Apologies to Cal88 if I crossed any lines.

Both Palestinian and Israeli leadership have alternatively been horrible and torpedoed peaceful solutions. Why the US should continue financing either party is beyond me.

Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Cal88 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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The Palestinians weren't just offered land in exchange for peace, THEY HAVE THAT LAND right now. Israeli's were forcibly removed from their homes in Gaza. Israeli police / military were removed. It is lunacy to say that a real offer was never made.

---

Yes, Zbigniew Brzezinski and John Mearsheimer are LUNATICS for laughing at the notion that the Palestinians were offered a viable peace plan, and you, Tekillaforkapp, are the sane, learned impartial observer here dispensing the truth.

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Per Unherd, "Mearsheimer … said that Israel hasn't been interested in a two-state solution since Camp David in 2000." Your posted video of Brzezinski has him claiming the 2000 offer was not good. Thus, your two cited experts are in opposition on the question of the viability of Israeli offers in 2000.

You cling to B and M as if they are Oracles. But M has been seriously accused of anti-semitism as far back as 2011 and in 2006 co-authored a piece critical of the "Israeli Lobby," in part because they get their money all at once which allows them to collect interest on the money, which not so subtlety ties into obvious anti-Semitic tropes. B is Russian. Russia has been anti-Israel since at least the 1960s/1970s conflicts with Egypt. B inherently sees the world through that prism. You cling to these two anti-Israelis as authorities, fully ignoring their obvious bias and persisting as if only their two opinions can be right.

But all that aside, I referenced Israeli's exit from Gaza in 2005 (again, your B video references 2000) as a valid attempt at a land for peace deal by Israeli. Israel forcibly removed 9k Israelis and moved back to the 1967 Green Line (IIRC) in August of 2005 (Palestinian terrorists fired rockets into Israel hours later; they captured an Israeli army construct in a cross border raid months later; they fired nearly 1k rockets into Israel in 2006). For context, this was connected to ending the 2nd Intifada. Palestinians have had the land since 2005. Palestinians have had self government since 2005. Palestinians have continuously attacked Israel from Gaza. This is indisputable.

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I don't disagree that these guys have their biases (especially Mearsheimer), but Brzezinski is Polish and not Russian, right?

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Zbig was notoriously anti-Russian, as many Poles tend to be, and in fact more pro-Israel as during his time the Soviet bloc was fully behind Arab countries, much more so than Russia today. So h was in fact predisposed to be more pro-Israel.

I guess the hardcore zionists will also accuse Carter of being antisemitic for his more nuanced stance, but he unequivocally and repeatedly stated that the Palestinians, even Hamas, which he personally negotiated with, wanted a 2-state solution but were rejected by the Israelis who want to dominate the entirety of Palestine:

Jimmy Carter in 2009: "The Hamas leaders want peace, and they want to have reconciliation... eventually with the Israelis to live side by side"

Carter has been lionized lately, especially by Dems, as he's in hospice care at age 99. But not even Ilhan Omar would say this today pic.twitter.com/VZg13WNOMK

— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) October 24, 2023

Jimmy Carter, after returning from talks with Hamas in 2008, said they agreed to recognize Israel's right to exist, and proposed a ceasefire in Gaza... which Israel rejected

For his efforts pursuing a diplomatic resolution, Carter was furiously attacked by the ADL pic.twitter.com/TMBKyVR5DO

— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) October 23, 2023

The bottom line is this: Peace will come to Israel and the Middle East only when the Israeli government is willing to comply with international law-- and honor its own previous commitments by accepting its legal borders. 

Jimmy Carter pic.twitter.com/128S4UVebI

— Prof Zenkus (@anthonyzenkus) December 29, 2024

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I don't think anyone is interested in returning to Jimmy Carter's foreign policy which was in large party designed by Brzezinski.

Among his other many bad acts, as an ex president Carter undermined US foreign policy in the Middle East. He engaged with Hamas while it was a designated terrorist organization and, like you, was an apologist for its many bad acts.

Carter was very unique as a POTUS because he was genuinely preoccupied with human rights and had a decent moral compass, hence his positions above on the Mideast, which were actually pretty similar to JFK's. Back then US foreign policy in the Mideast wasn't completely beholden to AIPAC. If anything, we need more of the policies of Carter and JFK.

After Carter, under Reagan, Schultz and Weinberger there still was some daylight between US interests/policy and Israeli ones, but that started to fade under Clinton/Ross, and disappeared completely with Dubya as the neocons took complete control of US foreign policy.

Cal88 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Well Duh. They were just invaded, had civilians killed, kidnapped and tortured and they see civilian Palestinians celebrating as Israeli prisoners are paraded about. Who in their right mind see that and says "yeah, let's negotiate with them to be our permanent neighbors. They seem trustworthy and likely to be good neighbors."

They tried this path years ago when they forcibly removed Israeli's from Gaza in the land for peace deal. They got the October massacre as Thanks.

---

There never was an Israeli "land for peace" deal that featured a viable Palestinian state.

Israelis never had an interest in a 2 state solution since the beginning (1880s). pic.twitter.com/t2VXKaIdQk

— Use Yandex Search Engine for Anti Zionist searches (@Use_Yandex) January 29, 2025

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Except the Israeli's have made several offers for a two state solution that were rejected by Arafat. That is a verifiable fact.

You just pile lie after lie after lie. Truly remarkable.

If the Palestinians laid down their weapons and acknowledged Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, there would be a Palestinian state. Instead, the have a toxic culture - accurately described as a death cult - where they prefer dead Palestinians over peace with Jews.

---

None of these offers were viable, according to Mearsheimer, and also Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was part of the negotiation process and one of the most prominent US diplomats/policymakers in the past several decades.

For the folks bringing up 2000 https://t.co/1hCdbFXmxW

— Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) December 16, 2023

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Those are minority opinions which you quote as fact and without any explanation. The real reason the proposals weren't was because the Palestinians didn't accept them because they are not willing to accept a two state solution where Israel is a Jewish state. Full stop. And then Arafat started an Intifada which effectively killed the peace process for generations.

---

It doesn't matter if Israel is Jewish to the Palestinians, as a matter of fact they have had a local Jewish population as well as a large Christian minority before the Zionists took their land and concentrated them in reservations representing around 10% of their original land.

It doesn't matter if the Zionists are Jewish, Hindus, Presbytarian or Martian, the problem is that they established a colonial project on top of an existing country and drove the natives out through a series of bloody massacres and a massive ethnic cleansing projects, including the one ongoing. This is the basic truth that you are trying to gaslight away with your fake weaponized passive aggressive victimhood.

Quote:

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You consistently defend Hamas and can't criticize the worst Hamas' behavior without a "but Israel." You have nothing to say about their ghoulish and abhorrent treatment of hostages - or for that matter that they took hostages including infant children. Hamas started a war and all of the Palestinian suffering follows from that. Your refusal to acknowledge that condemns the Palestinians to more suffering.

---

The war started in 1948, with a long series of massacres committed by the Israelis that dwarf the events of October 7.

I could not imagine telling such horrors while smiling and laughing.

Retired Israeli veterans tell stories of murder, rape and oppression of Palestinians proving this has been going on for far longer than October 7th... pic.twitter.com/iqlqdM0Sji

— Noctis Draven (@DravenNoctis) January 7, 2025

‘Throw your son into the oven’

On this day in 1948, Zionist militias committed one of the worst massacres of the Nakba in Deir Yassin, Palestine🇵🇸. Here is a survivor of the massacre recounting how Zionist militias threw a father and son into an oven. https://t.co/o93DuEo2ss pic.twitter.com/MYZDZIMPPU

— Afshin Rattansi (@afshinrattansi) April 9, 2024

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As a reminder, you are a supporter of the group that takes babies as hostages and recently held a parade to celebrate the death of those babies.

You're the one gaslighting on history. The Palestinian leadership has not accepted Israel as a Jewish state. Many oppose the existence of Israel in any form - Hamas being a notable example. And as to the others (PA), by insisting on a "right of return", they are implicitly rejecting the continued existence of Israel as Jewish state.

And you are wrong, the history did not start in 1948 - when incidentally the surrounding Arab states all attacked Israel (something you ignore). Fighting literally goes back centuries when the Arab/Muslim armies conquered Jerusalem - the Arabs were the original colonizers/imperialists/conquerers. Al Aqsa is literally built on top of a Jewish Temple - what does that tell you about history? Who was there first? Who established a "colonial project"?

We know the Jews have been in Israel (Judea and Samaria) for literally thousands of years. In contrast, there has NEVER been a Palestinian state.

Beyond that, in modern times there has been fighting and attacks on both sides. Pre-1948, there was fighting. For example, the Hebron Massacre in 1923. According to you, Jews were the only ones fighting or attacking. It is not only false, but silly.

You deny Palestinians all agency - and therefore absolve them of any responsibility for their own actions and inactions. Hamas attacked Israel on 10/7 and intentionally massacred hundreds of innocent people. They took babies as hostages. Even if in your warped mind that was somehow justified (it is not), then Israel's reaction is also fully justified. Hamas and the Palestinians could have returned the hostages and stopped fighting - they decided not to. Israel is under no obligation to surrender - no country would do that.

Your type of thinking and whitewashing of history ultimately harms the Palestinians. They will suffer as long as people like you advocate for actions/inactions that perpetuate suffering.

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Yes, my type of thinking harms the Palestinians, but Israel dropping the equivalent of 4 Hiroshima bombs on 2 million Palestinians crammed into an area the size of Manhattan is for their own good!!

As to history, real fact trump your zionist fantasy storytelling where people with German, Polish or Russian last names who descend from eastern European tribes and who live in places like Cleveland or Moscow have a divine right to steal the land and houses in a land thousands of miles away in which the natives have lived for millennia, with God as their real estate agent and the US taxpayer as their sugar daddy.

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Israel is dropping bombs because Hamas - the group you support and defend - attacked Israel commencing a war. So yes, people who support/defend Hamas are responsible for the devastation that resulted.

In terms of your second paragraph, it is garbled buzzword nonsense. I demonstrated - unequivocally - that Jews were in Israel before Palestinians/Arabs. That is not a fantasy - it is a historical fact.

Maybe the Palestinians, Hezbollah, and the other radical Islamists should stop starting wars and engaging in terrorism? Arab countries have done that and now enjoy good relationships with Israel.

Why won't any surrounding countries accept Palestinian refugees? They took millions of Syrians - but don't want the Palestinians? Why?

You are a wrong. The Jews of Europe can trace their ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the land of Israel . We are not indigenous to Europe and are genetically more related to Mizrahi Jews that were exiled from Israel to Spain and the Middle East than any other native Europeans groups. There's no scientific dispute about this. Having ancestors that spent a few centuries in Europe doesn't make them indigenous to Europe, just like African Americans don't stop being indigenous to Africa because they've been in America for a few centuries. The whole indigenous people argument is a folly anyway but it's one you death cult supporters lose badly.

CaliforniaEternal said:

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You are a complete liar. The Jews of Europe can trace their ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the land of Israel . We are not indigenous to Europe and are genetically more related to Mizrahi Jews that were exiled from Israel to Spain and the Middle East than any other native Europeans groups. There's no scientific dispute about this. Having ancestors that spent a few centuries in Europe doesn't make them indigenous to Europe, just like African Americans don't stop being indigenous to Africa because they've been in America for a few centuries. The whole indigenous people argument is a folly anyway but it's one you death cult supporters lose badly.

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Your argumentation here is based on the modern ideology of zionism, which was developed in the late 19th century by European Jews like Theodor Herzl, it is not based on science, as shown by Jewish geneticist Nathan Pearson above.

CaliforniaEternal said:

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You are a complete liar. The Jews of Europe can trace their ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the land of Israel . We are not indigenous to Europe and are genetically more related to Mizrahi Jews that were exiled from Israel to Spain and the Middle East than any other native Europeans groups. There's no scientific dispute about this. Having ancestors that spent a few centuries in Europe doesn't make them indigenous to Europe, just like African Americans don't stop being indigenous to Africa because they've been in America for a few centuries. The whole indigenous people argument is a folly anyway but it's one you death cult supporters lose badly.

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Or stated another way, where exactly did all those European Jews come from? EG, why was Hitler able to be so upset that non-Germans (ie, Jews) existed in Germany? Did they magically appear out of nowhere?

Also, all the claims about genocide of Palestinians continuously neglects the fact that 21% of Israel's population is...wait for it...Palestinian / Arab, and has been living in the country free and prosperous for about 75 years. They serve in the government and military, work in core industries such as banking and medicine, and attend Israeli universities in a roughly proportionate percentage to their population. All VERY curious behavior by Israel. Zionist racist evil Israel's failure to eradicate these Palestinians is irrefutable evidence they are the most incompetent genociders in the history of mankind. What's that you say, Israel only fights and kills the Palestinians terrorists that refuse to acknowledge its right to exist and attack it repeatedly in an attempt to remove it from the map? No, that cannot possible be true. Stop with that crazy talk.

As I have said before, any "blood and soil" type arguments about which ethnic group "deserves" to have the land are not roads you want to go down. That way lies madness.

People live there now, and it would probably wrong and/or counterproductive to just remove them. So how do you deal?

sycasey said:

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As I have said before, any "blood and soil" type arguments about which ethnic group "deserves" to have the land are not roads you want to go down. That way lies madness.

People live there now, and it would probably wrong and/or counterproductive to just remove them. So how do you deal?

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I actually agree with this. The history of the world is migration, conquest and loss of territory by war, and settling of land, sometimes by force and other times by expansion into open areas.

It is rather humorous and convenient that Cal88 believes what happened 2000 years ago ago is not relevant to claims of who is the colonizer, but what happened in 1948 or 1967 is. The line is completely arbitrary and to your point, not particularly helpful.

The answer is pretty obvious. The parties need to agree on borders (largely resolved in prior negotiations), acknowledge a mutual right to exist, and waive any large scale right of return. There can be symbolic return rights or perhaps financial compensation. But you can't undo the past and Israel cannot exist while simultaneously giving Palestinians (most of whom were born after 1967) land in Israel.

To be specific, Israel has offered land swaps that give the Palestinian state the same amount of land as the 1967 borders and shared autonomy over Jerusalem. The Palestinian negotiators have been unwilling to waive the right of return and many elements of Palestinian society don't accept Israel's right to exist (Hamas).

Cal88 said:

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CaliforniaEternal said:

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You are a complete liar. The Jews of Europe can trace their ancestry back to the original inhabitants of the land of Israel . We are not indigenous to Europe and are genetically more related to Mizrahi Jews that were exiled from Israel to Spain and the Middle East than any other native Europeans groups. There's no scientific dispute about this. Having ancestors that spent a few centuries in Europe doesn't make them indigenous to Europe, just like African Americans don't stop being indigenous to Africa because they've been in America for a few centuries. The whole indigenous people argument is a folly anyway but it's one you death cult supporters lose badly.

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Your argumentation here is based on the modern ideology of zionism, which was developed in the late 19th century by European Jews like Theodor Herzl, it is not based on science, as shown by Jewish geneticist Nathan Pearson above.

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I could have Jennifer Doudna explain the DNA evidence to you and you still wouldn't believe it. The fact that so many people like you exist just proves why a state of Israel will always be necessary. And the only unfortunate thing about Zionism is that it didn't lead to a Jewish state earlier and saved millions of people from being murdered because no one else would take them in, including many of my own family members. Luckily, the days of hoping for benevolent rulers and fleeing from country to country are over.

BearGoggles said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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I'm glad I live in a country not driven by
Ethno- religious nationalism like all the Israelis who post here

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Interesting you focus on only the Israelis. You don't seem to have anything to say about Political Islamists or Jihadists who want to establish Sharia law societies, the 27 countries where Islam is the official religion, or the 13-15 countries with Christianity is the official religion.

Somehow only Israel is a big enough problem for you to post about. I wonder what explains that? Actually, I don't wonder.

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Because I'm an American and I don't want the US government pouring non stop money into genocide. But for you of course there is only one possibility…anti-semitism which is a cruel joke and a false flag

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Way to move the goals posts from the claimed objection to Ethno-religious nationalism (focused only on Israel) to false claims of genocide. I note you didn't answer my question - do you object to Islamic or Christian ethno-religious nationalism? It is a yes or no question.

And if the answer is yes, why haven't you posted bout that? Why don't you object to US funds going to those ethno-religious countries. Literally billions of US dollars flow to those countries.

Putting aside the falsity of the claim, why don't you object to the actual genocides that occur in other places, such as Syria, China, and many places in Africa? America sends $$ to those places.

And, in particular, why don't you object to US funding of Hamas, which engages in terrorism and expressly advocates for genocide? Again, you only have criticism of one country.

Whether you like it or not, holding a Jewish state to a different standard is antisemitism. You should just own it.

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Stop with the lawyering bull****. This is a thread devoted to Israel- Palestine. Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of US aid. This money and weaponry is used for systematic killing, starvation and destruction. When other countries receive US aid on this scale and do same I'll be glad to condemn them.

Your fundamentalist identity politics and lust for blood have blinded you to the damage Israel has done to itself and the standing of Jews. By conflating "anti-semitism" with " anti- Israeli" they have cynically excused this massacre with tired "never again" tropes. Most Jews with a moral center recognize this and also the cruel duplicity of this- the victims of war criminals now committing them

When people refuse to apply the same standards toward Jews/Israel that they apply to the rest of the world there is no conflation of anti-semitism and anti-Israel. The questions about anti-semitism become meritoriously valid.

Likewise, the fact the anti-Israel crowd to continuously fails to ever condemn Palestinian violence, condemn Hamas' charter calling for the killing of Jews or acknowledgment that peaceful Palestinians within Israel (2+M), Jordan (@3M), Syria (@600K), Chile (@500K) Saudi Arabia (@450K), Qatar (@350K), UAE (200K), Egypt, @150K), Kuwait/Lybia/Iraq (@200K) are miraculously left untouched by Israel also raises the spectrum of anti-semitism.

Generally speaking, the only Palestinians who incur hardship and violence are those who insist that Israel should be removed from the map and who want to kill all Jews. Perspective: the "moderate" alternative to Hamas is led by an literal Holocaust denier.

Is Israel perfect? Of course not. If their soldiers have intentionally targeted civilians they should be criminally prosecuted. Palestinians have a right to peaceful existence and self governance but they must also recognize Israel's right to exist and stop all terrorist attacks. See...it isn't hard.

Anarchistbear said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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I'm glad I live in a country not driven by
Ethno- religious nationalism like all the Israelis who post here

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Interesting you focus on only the Israelis. You don't seem to have anything to say about Political Islamists or Jihadists who want to establish Sharia law societies, the 27 countries where Islam is the official religion, or the 13-15 countries with Christianity is the official religion.

Somehow only Israel is a big enough problem for you to post about. I wonder what explains that? Actually, I don't wonder.

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Because I'm an American and I don't want the US government pouring non stop money into genocide. But for you of course there is only one possibility…anti-semitism which is a cruel joke and a false flag

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Way to move the goals posts from the claimed objection to Ethno-religious nationalism (focused only on Israel) to false claims of genocide. I note you didn't answer my question - do you object to Islamic or Christian ethno-religious nationalism? It is a yes or no question.

And if the answer is yes, why haven't you posted bout that? Why don't you object to US funds going to those ethno-religious countries. Literally billions of US dollars flow to those countries.

Putting aside the falsity of the claim, why don't you object to the actual genocides that occur in other places, such as Syria, China, and many places in Africa? America sends $$ to those places.

And, in particular, why don't you object to US funding of Hamas, which engages in terrorism and expressly advocates for genocide? Again, you only have criticism of one country.

Whether you like it or not, holding a Jewish state to a different standard is antisemitism. You should just own it.

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Stop with the lawyering bull****. This is a thread devoted to Israel- Palestine. Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of US aid. This money and weaponry is used for systematic killing, starvation and destruction. When other countries receive US aid on this scale and do same I'll be glad to condemn them.

Your fundamentalist identity politics and lust for blood have blinded you to the damage Israel has done to itself and the standing of Jews. By conflating "anti-semitism" with " anti- Israeli" they have cynically excused this massacre with tired "never again" tropes. Most Jews with a moral center recognize this and also the cruel duplicity of this- the victims of war criminals now committing them

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You are wrong. Israel is nowhere near the largest recipient of US aid. Ukraine has received more weapons from the US in the last 3 years than Israel has in its history. Japan, South Korea, and Germany receive way more in aid from US troops stationed in those countries to provide security. They reimburse a small amount of the tens of billions the US spends annually for those troops. The US also spends $20B annually on the UN, much of which ends up in the hands of anti-US garbage.

And you simply refuse to acknowledge that the Palestinians are the fundamentalist identity state with far less far less diversity in their society than Israel. You don't see minority groups fleeing Israel like they do in the rest of the Middle East, why is that? Your deflection, moral inversion, and hiding behind the anti-Israel banner don't fool anyone about what your true motives are.

The world's conscience has been shocked by what the Palestinians have done and this will be the enduring memory of the civilized world.

Goodbye sweet boys 🧡🧡

We are so sorry this world failed you pic.twitter.com/SWO3rVJ9p8

— Aviva Klompas (@AvivaKlompas) February 26, 2025

Yarden Bibas buried his wife Shiri and their two sons Kfir and Ariel today. May their memories be a blessing. 💔 🇮🇱

📸: Eitan Oner pic.twitter.com/JJAcnq73YW

— Noa Tishby (@noatishby) February 26, 2025

Shiri.
Kfir.
Ariel.

Paris tonight 🟧🟧🟧

May their memory be blessing. pic.twitter.com/C00Dl628AC

— Israel ישראל (@Israel) February 26, 2025