golden sloth said:

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Buttigieg went on Fox news, sure its not Hannity or Carlson, but I think its good he is at least reaching out in hostile territory.

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okaydo said:

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I am probably in the minority in that I like the drawn-out process.

I remember David Cameron boasting to David Letterman about how short the British elections are.

But in the American system, it's a marathon. And you have to outlast and overcome the scrutiny and the skeletons.

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golden sloth said:

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okaydo said:

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I am probably in the minority in that I like the drawn-out process.

I remember David Cameron boasting to David Letterman about how short the British elections are.

But in the American system, it's a marathon. And you have to outlast and overcome the scrutiny and the skeletons.

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I just wish money weren't so important, and that congress had a little more time to get stuff done before worrying about re-election.

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BearsWiin said:

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golden sloth said:

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BearsWiin said:

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It doesn't help that supposedly respectable journalism then reports on random tweets like they're news.

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This is a major pet peeve of mine. The news should never report on a tweet unless it is from some official or organization, giving random people a soapbox will only result in extreme perspectives drowning everything else out.

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Not to mention that Twitter user Amelia's rant was factually inaccurate. It's lazy and sloppy lowest common denominator journalism to give Twitter crap like that any validation.

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Another Bear said:

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Beto is getting it from the GOP because they're scared and to test what "sticks" to him. The GOP will do this as SOP. He's also getting some from other Dems pushing for position/policy.

The thing is, Beto got the Vanity Fair cover and had Annie Lebowitz as phototog. That's major action, and that seems like an annointment from the "elite" media. At this point, no other announced candidate got that. What does it mean...Obama got a VF cover, maybe even Annie took the photos.

Here's Obama's cover from 2007. Side note, interesting it wasn't directly about him (but of course it was, but indirect). Of course there's a new context but Beto got a single cover about him and running. Make of it what you will but I'm guessing VF is figuring it can influence the election and Beto is their guy. In 20 months, who knows if this matters.

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okaydo said:

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If you're Vanity Fair, and you want to put a prominent presidential candidate on your cover. And you want the cover to be shot by Annie Leibowitz, wouldn't you pick Beto?

His looks are part of his appeal and totally up Vanity Fair's alley. (Of course, Obama and Bill Clinton and George W. Bush's good looks were part of their appeal, too.)

Anyways, this article was published today (it's from The Cut, which is female-oriented part of New York Magazine):


https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/is-beto-orourke-totally-kind-of-hot.html

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BearsWiin said:

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golden sloth said:

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Buttigieg went on Fox news, sure its not Hannity or Carlson, but I think its good he is at least reaching out in hostile territory.

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I'm all in for Mayor Pete. Not knowing who he was a year ago isn't going to keep me from working for the one I think is the best candidate.

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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golden sloth said:

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Buttigieg went on Fox news, sure its not Hannity or Carlson, but I think its good he is at least reaching out in hostile territory.

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I'm all in for Mayor Pete. Not knowing who he was a year ago isn't going to keep me from working for the one I think is the best candidate.

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IMO, there is still too much bigotry against homosexuals for the country to be ready for a homosexual president. Congressmen and Senators - depends on how blue the district or state is.

I would vote for him of course if he wins the Democratic nomination, but I don't think he'll be able to win with the #1 concern being defeating Trump rather than electing the best person (I don't know if he is the best person - I just know that many people are enamored of him).

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BearsWiin said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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golden sloth said:

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Buttigieg went on Fox news, sure its not Hannity or Carlson, but I think its good he is at least reaching out in hostile territory.

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I'm all in for Mayor Pete. Not knowing who he was a year ago isn't going to keep me from working for the one I think is the best candidate.

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IMO, there is still too much bigotry against homosexuals for the country to be ready for a homosexual president. Congressmen and Senators - depends on how blue the district or state is.

I would vote for him of course if he wins the Democratic nomination, but I don't think he'll be able to win with the #1 concern being defeating Trump rather than electing the best person (I don't know if he is the best person - I just know that many people are enamored of him).

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If not now, when? I'm not of a mind to think this upcoming election is about courting some mythical swing voter; instead it's all about motivating the base to turn out. But even if you want to make the swing voter argument, Pete's managed to get himself elected mayor of a city (by a huge margin) in a state that elected Mike Pence as governor and went to Trump in 2016 by 19 points. Pragmatism trumps orientation.

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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golden sloth said:

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Buttigieg went on Fox news, sure its not Hannity or Carlson, but I think its good he is at least reaching out in hostile territory.

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I'm all in for Mayor Pete. Not knowing who he was a year ago isn't going to keep me from working for the one I think is the best candidate.

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IMO, there is still too much bigotry against homosexuals for the country to be ready for a homosexual president. Congressmen and Senators - depends on how blue the district or state is.

I would vote for him of course if he wins the Democratic nomination, but I don't think he'll be able to win with the #1 concern being defeating Trump rather than electing the best person (I don't know if he is the best person - I just know that many people are enamored of him).

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If not now, when? I'm not of a mind to think this upcoming election is about courting some mythical swing voter; instead it's all about motivating the base to turn out. But even if you want to make the swing voter argument, Pete's managed to get himself elected mayor of a city (by a huge margin) in a state that elected Mike Pence as governor and went to Trump in 2016 by 19 points. Pragmatism trumps orientation.

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Yeah, but he's mayor of a college town and even in red states college towns tend to lean more to the left. Plus when he was elected, he hadn't come out yet so he established himself before people thought of him as a gay candidate.

I'd love to be wrong though.

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Yogi Bear said:

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Yeah, but he's mayor of a college town and even in red states college towns tend to lean more to the left.

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ducky23 said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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Trump is so unique to the point that I just don't think you can rely too much on these polls.

I think there's a lot of people (not just a handful) who are too embarrassed to admit to a pollster that they are going to vote for trump

Just look at this board. I doubt you will get a single person here who says they are going to vote for trump in 2020. And yet, I guarantee you that a bunch will.

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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golden sloth said:

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Buttigieg went on Fox news, sure its not Hannity or Carlson, but I think its good he is at least reaching out in hostile territory.

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I'm all in for Mayor Pete. Not knowing who he was a year ago isn't going to keep me from working for the one I think is the best candidate.

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IMO, there is still too much bigotry against homosexuals for the country to be ready for a homosexual president. Congressmen and Senators - depends on how blue the district or state is.

I would vote for him of course if he wins the Democratic nomination, but I don't think he'll be able to win with the #1 concern being defeating Trump rather than electing the best person (I don't know if he is the best person - I just know that many people are enamored of him).

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If not now, when? I'm not of a mind to think this upcoming election is about courting some mythical swing voter; instead it's all about motivating the base to turn out. But even if you want to make the swing voter argument, Pete's managed to get himself elected mayor of a city (by a huge margin) in a state that elected Mike Pence as governor and went to Trump in 2016 by 19 points. Pragmatism trumps orientation.

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Yeah, but he's mayor of a college town and even in red states college towns tend to lean more to the left. Plus when he was elected, he hadn't come out yet so he established himself before people thought of him as a gay candidate.

I'd love to be wrong though.

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Another Bear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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BearsWiin said:

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golden sloth said:

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Buttigieg went on Fox news, sure its not Hannity or Carlson, but I think its good he is at least reaching out in hostile territory.

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I'm all in for Mayor Pete. Not knowing who he was a year ago isn't going to keep me from working for the one I think is the best candidate.

---

IMO, there is still too much bigotry against homosexuals for the country to be ready for a homosexual president. Congressmen and Senators - depends on how blue the district or state is.

I would vote for him of course if he wins the Democratic nomination, but I don't think he'll be able to win with the #1 concern being defeating Trump rather than electing the best person (I don't know if he is the best person - I just know that many people are enamored of him).

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If not now, when? I'm not of a mind to think this upcoming election is about courting some mythical swing voter; instead it's all about motivating the base to turn out. But even if you want to make the swing voter argument, Pete's managed to get himself elected mayor of a city (by a huge margin) in a state that elected Mike Pence as governor and went to Trump in 2016 by 19 points. Pragmatism trumps orientation.

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Yeah, but he's mayor of a college town and even in red states college towns tend to lean more to the left. Plus when he was elected, he hadn't come out yet so he established himself before people thought of him as a gay candidate.

I'd love to be wrong though.

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Not wrong but NW Indiana (aka The Region) is basically a suburb of Chicago, so its politics reflect that; a major metro with a moderate-liberal Democratic leaning, but entrenched politics (unions, rust belt, race) that sometimes goes counter... vs. deep dark Indiana red. College town no doubt helped.

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bearister said:

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Devin Nunes is going to have to dismiss this case before he submits to a deposition or responds to a demand to produce documents because this dude is a wee bit dirty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/03/devin-nunes-ludicrous-250-million-lawsuit-against-twitter-explained/%3famp=1

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golden sloth said:

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whereas the message of someone like Warren, O'Rourke or Harris immediately turns those voters off. And yes, that is all unsubstantiated speculation, so feel free to disagree.

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Anarchistbear said:

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O'Rourke has voted for the interests of his district- pro military, pro fossil fuel. He's a centrist.

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bearister said:

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Devin Nunes is going to have to dismiss this case before he submits to a deposition or responds to a demand to produce documents because this dude is a wee bit dirty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/03/devin-nunes-ludicrous-250-million-lawsuit-against-twitter-explained/%3famp=1

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sycasey said:

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golden sloth said:

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whereas the message of someone like Warren, O'Rourke or Harris immediately turns those voters off. And yes, that is all unsubstantiated speculation, so feel free to disagree.

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I definitely would not put O'Rourke in that group. He clearly won plenty of crossover voters in Texas.

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Anarchistbear said:

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I'd regard him as more like Clinton- centrist to me.

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okaydo said:

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golden sloth said:

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okaydo said:

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golden sloth said:

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bearister said:

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I'm not on twitter, because its horrible and I have no interest in being in that sphere, but I was surprised at the number of attack columns from the left regarding Beto on the day of his announcement. What surprised me about them is that there are legitimate arguments against Beto (he is too young, he is only known for losing an election, he has no definitive policy goals or objectives), but the criticisms circled around him being a relatively young, white male, as if that should be a disqualifying factor.

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Beto's critics don't object to him being a white male. They object to white male privilege.

This sums it up:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beto-orourke-president-sexist-double-standards_n_5c8aa5cbe4b0db7da9f0c7e7

"Man, I'm just born to be in it."

That rubs people the wrong way. There's a certain kind of privilege that you have to have to go from nobody to loser to presidential candidate in less than a year.

There's this feeling -- whether you like it or not -- that there is a double standard for white males. Women and minorities will be overly scrutinized, while if you're white and male you can get away with a lot of things and it'll be excused. Heck, look at our current president.

But if you think being white and male doesn't get you special treatment, I can't help you. But all you have to see is the Republican party hearings. So many dummies become congressmen because of their gender and color of their school.

There's also the issue of him being a centrist. His policies might be popular for red Texas. But liberals don't like it. He wants to reach across the aisle, like he did when he endorsed a Republican congressman last year. But liberals already saw how Obama's attempt at bipartisanship failed.

Also, if you're high-profile like Beto is you're going to get more scrutinized than, say, that Buttagig guy.

Again, it's not about being a white male -- or else left wingers would've disqualified Bernie Sanders last time around. It's about white male privilege.

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I get the centrist reason for attacking him, but I don't understand how his decision to run is an exercise in privilege. Tulsi Gabbard has equivalent experience, Pete Buttigieg has less experience at the national level, Andrew Yang has no experience, are these people exercising privilege? If the whole argument is based on his saying "Man, I'm just born to be in it." and then just conjecturing out. I don't see what prevents any of Andrew Yang, Tulsi Gabbard, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg or anyone else from saying that.

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Beto is a big-name guy. You can't really compare him to Tulsi, Buttigieg or Yang.

There are different expectations for Beto than from those people most of us have never heard of.

So when Beto announces a candidacy that is more about his personality and that he likes punk rock than actual substance, in which he expresses uncertainty about actually running, well, it's going to draw criticism.

If Beto had come out guns a-blazing like, say, Obama in Illinois' capital, I'd bet the reaction would be totally different.

But it is viewed as exercise in privilege in that he could do that.

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