dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Good segment poking major holes in Elizabeth Warren's plans.
Double the federal government, add $4T in debt?
She hasn't explained where she gets the money for all she wants to do.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/the-staggering-cost-of-elizabeth-warrens-plans-42-trillion-per-year-161552386.html

---

She has explained - healthcare premiums, deductibles, etc. would be re-routed to pay for her health care plan

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Good segment poking major holes in Elizabeth Warren's plans.
Double the federal government, add $4T in debt?
She hasn't explained where she gets the money for all she wants to do.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/the-staggering-cost-of-elizabeth-warrens-plans-42-trillion-per-year-161552386.html

---

She has explained - healthcare premiums, deductibles, etc. would be re-routed to pay for her health care plan

---

Current budget of some $3.8 Trillion where we are around $900 Million in debt with that number. Sure makes sense to me to add another $4.2 Trillion a year. Think big or go home.

---

dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

Good segment poking major holes in Elizabeth Warren's plans.
Double the federal government, add $4T in debt?
She hasn't explained where she gets the money for all she wants to do.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/the-staggering-cost-of-elizabeth-warrens-plans-42-trillion-per-year-161552386.html

---

She has explained - healthcare premiums, deductibles, etc. would be re-routed to pay for her health care plan

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Any of these cost of health care analyses that don't take into account the decrease in spending by businesses and individuals for employee premiums are incomplete and misleading.

Also as someone who has some HR admin experience, it's a nightmare for businesses and would be a boon to businesses large and small to have the government take it over. A lot of people would be happy to see employers get out of the health care providing game. Will be bad for companies involved in administration of benefits of course so there are tradeoffs on both sides.

---

BearsWiin said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Any of these cost of health care analyses that don't take into account the decrease in spending by businesses and individuals for employee premiums are incomplete and misleading.

Also as someone who has some HR admin experience, it's a nightmare for businesses and would be a boon to businesses large and small to have the government take it over. A lot of people would be happy to see employers get out of the health care providing game. Will be bad for companies involved in administration of benefits of course so there are tradeoffs on both sides.

---

Wife runs an engineering firm, and every year I'm in on the discussion of which new plan to switch to (the plans never stay the same). We reimburse our employees for their out of pocket medical costs so they don't have to worry about getting the care they need, so every year is a guessing game as to what medical treatment we think we can reasonably predict our people and their families will need. Premiums have risen on average about 10%/yr since we bought the company in 2007, even as deductibles have skyrocketed (and don't get me started on the cost increase of epipens). Can't wait for the govt. to take it all over.

---

concordtom said:

---

Who do you think Bernie would pick?
Who do you think Elizabeth would pick?

---

concordtom said:

---

Who do you think Elizabeth would pick?

---

sycasey said:

---

There's really no good reason health insurance has to be tied to employment, it's just kind of an accident of history that this is how it shook out in the United States, and once people get used to something it's hard to get them to accept something else. Since we had a postwar boom period where almost everyone was employed (or in a family with someone who was) it was fine to have health insurance come from your job. In places where everything was still bombed out and needed to be rebuilt, they went for a government solution.

Also, at one time health insurance tended to be nonprofit, mostly by custom. Then they figured out they didn't have to do it that way.

---

concordtom said:

---

sycasey said:

---

There's really no good reason health insurance has to be tied to employment, it's just kind of an accident of history that this is how it shook out in the United States, and once people get used to something it's hard to get them to accept something else. Since we had a postwar boom period where almost everyone was employed (or in a family with someone who was) it was fine to have health insurance come from your job. In places where everything was still bombed out and needed to be rebuilt, they went for a government solution.

Also, at one time health insurance tended to be nonprofit, mostly by custom. Then they figured out they didn't have to do it that way.

---

Before you get too comfortable with the "every American deserves health care as a basic human right", allow me to point out that before companies began to include it as a benefits package, people had none.

At some point, it's just all too expensive. Modern science is a luxury!

I'm not saying I don't want to have some sort of plan for everyone, but "my" plan is not being discussed.

I think I'd run Medicare Light For All. Take care of the simple stuff, like the flu, broken bones, and birthing.
If you get a cancer or suffer other expensive maladies, you'd better have private insurance.
Look, people are going to die, and it sucks.
But we can't pay for everything for everyone.

---

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

sycasey said:

---

There's really no good reason health insurance has to be tied to employment, it's just kind of an accident of history that this is how it shook out in the United States, and once people get used to something it's hard to get them to accept something else. Since we had a postwar boom period where almost everyone was employed (or in a family with someone who was) it was fine to have health insurance come from your job. In places where everything was still bombed out and needed to be rebuilt, they went for a government solution.

Also, at one time health insurance tended to be nonprofit, mostly by custom. Then they figured out they didn't have to do it that way.

---

Before you get too comfortable with the "every American deserves health care as a basic human right", allow me to point out that before companies began to include it as a benefits package, people had none.

At some point, it's just all too expensive. Modern science is a luxury!

I'm not saying I don't want to have some sort of plan for everyone, but "my" plan is not being discussed.

I think I'd run Medicare Light For All. Take care of the simple stuff, like the flu, broken bones, and birthing.
If you get a cancer or suffer other expensive maladies, you'd better have private insurance.
Look, people are going to die, and it sucks.
But we can't pay for everything for everyone.

---

I saw a sign on a building in Oakland that simply stated the life expectancy for two different Oakland zip codes. One was 10 years higher than the other. I live in the higher zip code. I can pay some taxes to bridge the gap.

I would not make it a Cadillac plan, but nobody should face death because they don't have money any more than people should have to hire personal security guards instead of police or have their house burn down unless they have a private firefighting service.

The Holy Roman Empire had universal health care. I think we can manage it.

---

Anarchistbear said:

---

Stick a fork in her.

---

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

Anarchistbear said:

---

Stick a fork in her.

---

Maybe one person on here (at most) has been rooting for Harris, so your rejoicing in her demise isn't really met with much troll power.

---

Anarchistbear said:

---

B.A. Bearacus said:

---

Anarchistbear said:

---

Stick a fork in her.

---

Maybe one person on here (at most) has been rooting for Harris, so your rejoicing in her demise isn't really met with much troll power.

---

Hardly trolling to report on the demise of. candidate who at one point was considered top three and is now irrelevant. Seems like it's relevant to an election thread. So who were you trolling with your Gabbard post?

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

sycasey said:

---

There's really no good reason health insurance has to be tied to employment, it's just kind of an accident of history that this is how it shook out in the United States, and once people get used to something it's hard to get them to accept something else. Since we had a postwar boom period where almost everyone was employed (or in a family with someone who was) it was fine to have health insurance come from your job. In places where everything was still bombed out and needed to be rebuilt, they went for a government solution.

Also, at one time health insurance tended to be nonprofit, mostly by custom. Then they figured out they didn't have to do it that way.

---

Before you get too comfortable with the "every American deserves health care as a basic human right", allow me to point out that before companies began to include it as a benefits package, people had none.

At some point, it's just all too expensive. Modern science is a luxury!

I'm not saying I don't want to have some sort of plan for everyone, but "my" plan is not being discussed.

I think I'd run Medicare Light For All. Take care of the simple stuff, like the flu, broken bones, and birthing.
If you get a cancer or suffer other expensive maladies, you'd better have private insurance.
Look, people are going to die, and it sucks.
But we can't pay for everything for everyone.

---

I saw a sign on a building in Oakland that simply stated the life expectancy for two different Oakland zip codes. One was 10 years higher than the other. I live in the higher zip code. I can pay some taxes to bridge the gap.

I would not make it a Cadillac plan, but nobody should face death because they don't have money any more than people should have to hire personal security guards instead of police or have their house burn down unless they have a private firefighting service.

The Holy Roman Empire had universal health care. I think we can manage it.

---

I find it funny when people come after universal health care with "what about this?" type comments, as if no one has figured out a workable system. My answer is, "What do they do in Canada, the U.K., France, Germany, Japan, Australia, South Korea, Switzerland, or literally every other first-world country? We can do something like that."

---

sycasey said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

sycasey said:

---

There's really no good reason health insurance has to be tied to employment, it's just kind of an accident of history that this is how it shook out in the United States, and once people get used to something it's hard to get them to accept something else. Since we had a postwar boom period where almost everyone was employed (or in a family with someone who was) it was fine to have health insurance come from your job. In places where everything was still bombed out and needed to be rebuilt, they went for a government solution.

Also, at one time health insurance tended to be nonprofit, mostly by custom. Then they figured out they didn't have to do it that way.

---

Before you get too comfortable with the "every American deserves health care as a basic human right", allow me to point out that before companies began to include it as a benefits package, people had none.

At some point, it's just all too expensive. Modern science is a luxury!

I'm not saying I don't want to have some sort of plan for everyone, but "my" plan is not being discussed.

I think I'd run Medicare Light For All. Take care of the simple stuff, like the flu, broken bones, and birthing.
If you get a cancer or suffer other expensive maladies, you'd better have private insurance.
Look, people are going to die, and it sucks.
But we can't pay for everything for everyone.

---

I saw a sign on a building in Oakland that simply stated the life expectancy for two different Oakland zip codes. One was 10 years higher than the other. I live in the higher zip code. I can pay some taxes to bridge the gap.

I would not make it a Cadillac plan, but nobody should face death because they don't have money any more than people should have to hire personal security guards instead of police or have their house burn down unless they have a private firefighting service.

The Holy Roman Empire had universal health care. I think we can manage it.

---

I find it funny when people come after universal health care with "what about this?" type comments, as if no one has figured out a workable system. My answer is, "What do they do in Canada, the U.K., France, Germany, Japan, Australia, South Korea, Switzerland, or literally every other first-world country? We can do something like that."

---

Professor Turgeson Bear said:

---

It'shilarious to me how much you right wingers focus on immigrants as the root cause of every problem in your life.

---