This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
This is an example of what I don't like about Buttigieg. He says everything he's proposed is paid for?dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
Sanders has done so much.Professor Turgeson Bear said:This is an example of what I don't like about Buttigieg. He says everything he's proposed is paid for?dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
Really?
HOW?
He says these things, but never offers actual solutions or plans. He just "talks about them." Obama was real good at talking too. I want a do-er, not a talker.
That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.Professor Turgeson Bear said:
I want a do-er, not a talker.
Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
If you want to be snide, don't bother.dajo9 said:Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
Because he's the only one that you can count on to try to do what he says he'll do and he's very specific about what he wants to do. I have no reason to believe Biden is committed to doing anything other than focusing on foreign policy. I have no reason to believe Warren is committed to do anything other than regulate the financial industry, and Buttigieg is vague about what he actually stands for. The rest don't have enough support to matter.Unit2Sucks said:So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.Professor Turgeson Bear said:
I want a do-er, not a talker.
Help me out here. Reagan, GWB, and Trump all ran as fiscal conservatives. Nearly all the fiscal conservatives I know voted for them. They all blew up the deficit and spent recklessly. How many times do we have to live through that before we identify the policy as what people say, do, and support. Fiscal conservative Presidents blow up the deficit and spend recklessly. It's been that way my whole life. Why would any of us pretend otherwise?calbear93 said:If you want to be snide, don't bother.dajo9 said:Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
If you want to engage in actual conversation, then don't write stupid **** like this. You are not being clever, just an annoying twit.
What do you want me to say? That Reagan, GWB and Trump were not fiscally conservative? When have I said they were? I have always said they were blowing up the deficit and incurring unsustainable debt.
This is the type of stupid **** that makes us draw battle lines and snipe at each other.
Not interesting in a stupid ***** slap fight with you, so just ****ing stop.
And why I truly appreciated Bill Clinton's presidency (and a big reason why I was comfortable with Hillary despite her disingenuous pivot to identity politics at the end). I also appreciated Obama's presidency and his effort to govern all without vilifying half the country (despite the fact that he was more left center on fiscal policy than conservative).sycasey said:calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
I would concur with dajo that it's probably Biden, not that fiscal conservatism is necessarily my number one priority. It was definitely Clinton's most successful policy.
How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?dajo9 said:
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
Fiscal conservative is a meaningless term.dajo9 said:Help me out here. Reagan, GWB, and Trump all ran as fiscal conservatives. Nearly all the fiscal conservatives I know voted for them. They all blew up the deficit and spent recklessly. How many times do we have to live through that before we identify the policy as what people say, do, and support. Fiscal conservative Presidents blow up the deficit and spend recklessly. It's been that way my whole life. Why would any of us pretend otherwise?calbear93 said:If you want to be snide, don't bother.dajo9 said:
Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.
Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
If you want to engage in actual conversation, then don't write stupid **** like this. You are not being clever, just an annoying twit.
What do you want me to say? That Reagan, GWB and Trump were not fiscally conservative? When have I said they were? I have always said they were blowing up the deficit and incurring unsustainable debt.
This is the type of stupid **** that makes us draw battle lines and snipe at each other.
Not interesting in a stupid ***** slap fight with you, so just ****ing stop.
Help you out with what, you disingenuous, feckless weasel? Reagan did not win for being a fiscal conservative. Reagan ran on a stronger US in the global platform, fighting against communism, growing the economy and lower taxes. After Carter's foreign and domestic policies, people voted for Reagan because they needed a return to normalcy. All of the former Democrats didn't become neocons because Reagan was a fiscal conservative. They became neocons because they wanted a stronger US against foreign powers. If anything, George H Bush was the fiscal conservative, calling Reagan's economic policies voodoo economics.dajo9 said:Help me out here. Reagan, GWB, and Trump all ran as fiscal conservatives. Nearly all the fiscal conservatives I know voted for them. They all blew up the deficit and spent recklessly. How many times do we have to live through that before we identify the policy as what people say, do, and support. Fiscal conservative Presidents blow up the deficit and spend recklessly. It's been that way my whole life. Why would any of us pretend otherwise?calbear93 said:If you want to be snide, don't bother.dajo9 said:Clinton was not a fiscally conservative President. Reagan, GWB, and Trump are fiscally conservative President's. That's what they ran on. That's who supported them. That's what they are.calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
Trump is the most fiscally conservative person running. If he wins he will continue to blow up the deficit and divert bailouts to people he likes (the farmers) and shift money away from people he doesn't like (blue staters).
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
If you want to engage in actual conversation, then don't write stupid **** like this. You are not being clever, just an annoying twit.
What do you want me to say? That Reagan, GWB and Trump were not fiscally conservative? When have I said they were? I have always said they were blowing up the deficit and incurring unsustainable debt.
This is the type of stupid **** that makes us draw battle lines and snipe at each other.
Not interesting in a stupid ***** slap fight with you, so just ****ing stop.
Thanks for responding. I don't necessarily agree but now I understand your viewpoint better. I agree that he's been specific for a very long time about what he wants to do. If he wins, I would love to see him involve Warren because I think she could be helpful in pushing his legislative agenda.Professor Turgeson Bear said:Because he's the only one that you can count on to try to do what he says he'll do and he's very specific about what he wants to do. I have no reason to believe Biden is committed to doing anything other than focusing on foreign policy. I have no reason to believe Warren is committed to do anything other than regulate the financial industry, and Buttigieg is vague about what he actually stands for. The rest don't have enough support to matter.Unit2Sucks said:So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.Professor Turgeson Bear said:
I want a do-er, not a talker.
And as for the what has he done, we've already gone over this before. Senators don't sponsor as much legislation as people think. I'm sure Biden has sponsored more than anyone else, but he's also been around way longer than anyone else.
I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?Professor Turgeson Bear said:How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?dajo9 said:
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
And I'm still concerned about his age. If by some lucky stroke he wins the nomination, he needs to pick a much younger Vice President and one that is generally aligned with his platform because the odds of him making it through one term with good mental acuity are bad enough and two is wholly unrealistic. But still, he could pick O.J. Simpson as his Vice President and I'm still not voting for Trump.Unit2Sucks said:Thanks for responding. I don't necessarily agree but now I understand your viewpoint better. I agree that he's been specific for a very long time about what he wants to do. If he wins, I would love to see him involve Warren because I think she could be helpful in pushing his legislative agenda.Professor Turgeson Bear said:Because he's the only one that you can count on to try to do what he says he'll do and he's very specific about what he wants to do. I have no reason to believe Biden is committed to doing anything other than focusing on foreign policy. I have no reason to believe Warren is committed to do anything other than regulate the financial industry, and Buttigieg is vague about what he actually stands for. The rest don't have enough support to matter.Unit2Sucks said:So why Bernie? Serious question - what has he done other than talk for decades? To me he comes across more like a person calling into sportstalk radio than someone who actually does things.Professor Turgeson Bear said:
I want a do-er, not a talker.
And as for the what has he done, we've already gone over this before. Senators don't sponsor as much legislation as people think. I'm sure Biden has sponsored more than anyone else, but he's also been around way longer than anyone else.
Vote yes for two wars we couldn't afford? Talk about a fat pitch.dajo9 said:I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?Professor Turgeson Bear said:How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?dajo9 said:
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
Professor Turgeson Bear said:Vote yes for two wars we couldn't afford? Talk about a fat pitch.dajo9 said:I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?Professor Turgeson Bear said:How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?dajo9 said:
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
dajo9 said:That's a fair response but voting for the war after 9/11 was the right vote at the time.Professor Turgeson Bear said:Vote yes for two wars we couldn't afford? Talk about a fat pitch.dajo9 said:I think you answered your own question in your 2nd paragraph. But what has Biden ever done to increase the deficit?Professor Turgeson Bear said:How is Joe Biden the most fiscally responsible when he's been in Congress during the biggest run-up of the debt and deficit? What's he ever done to try and reduce either?dajo9 said:
The most fiscally responsible person running is probably Joe Biden but all of the Democrats would be more fiscally responsible than the fiscal conservative in the White House.
The only thing that makes him fiscally responsible compared to the other candidates is he doesn't want to do much with a domestic agenda, so he doesn't have to explain how he's going to pay for all the things he doesn't want to do.
Yes, I suppose Bloomberg could be the most fiscally conservative. I was more thinking about the candidates who had any chance of winning.calbear93 said:And why I truly appreciated Bill Clinton's presidency (and a big reason why I was comfortable with Hillary despite her disingenuous pivot to identity politics at the end). I also appreciated Obama's presidency and his effort to govern all without vilifying half the country (despite the fact that he was more left center on fiscal policy than conservative).sycasey said:calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
I would concur with dajo that it's probably Biden, not that fiscal conservatism is necessarily my number one priority. It was definitely Clinton's most successful policy.
I think Bloomberg is actually the most fiscally conservative candidate and the one I most align with. I could get around to Buttigieg but would need to get to understand his perspective more (not much to go by).
Well, we'll just have to find other people who feel differently and defeat those fools.bearister said:
....and just in from the At the End of the Day a Nation Gets the Government it Deserves Dept.:
These Michigan swing voters are just Trump voters now - Axios
dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
sycasey said:calbear93 said:That's because Clinton was a fiscally conservative president who not only raised taxes but also cut entitlements. Who do you view as a fiscally conservative candidate in the primary?sycasey said:Yeah, that is some Grade-A bulls*** from Pete. If anything fixing the deficit was the greatest accomplishment of the Clinton Administration.dajo9 said:This is a good exhibit of what I don't like about Buttigieg. The Democratic Party has done a great job bringing down the deficit. The deficit has gone up with every Republican President in my adult life and down with every Democratic President in my adult life. Instead of running on the successes of Democratic Presidents before him, Buttigieg would prefer to reiterate a dishonest Republican talking point that the media has fully absorbed.B.A. Bearacus said:
Can't imagine any other serious or semi-serious Dem candidate responding like Buttigieg does here.
I would concur with dajo that it's probably Biden, not that fiscal conservatism is necessarily my number one priority. It was definitely Clinton's most successful policy.
