I am okay with Bernie over Trump. I prefer that to a younger version of him replacing Trump 4 years from now. He is a 4 year president and then hopefully someone can come in that doesn't suck.
The one problem I have with Trump is him blowing up the deficit with welfare for the rich, not the middle class.bearister said:
*I prefer Bernie to tRump. I think we can recover from a Bernie presidency but not so sure we can claw our way back from tRumpus Redux. The damage that fat orange f@uck will do to the environment and the SCOTUS with another 4 years in the Oval is a horrifying prospect. This still doesn't answer your question but my feeling is Bernie looks like he is going to get the nomination and win California in the General whether I vote for him or not. The people facing the real moral dilemma are those in the handful of key Electoral College states that hate Bernie and tRump equally.
It sucks that many of us will likely be in the position of not voting for the candidate of our choice. But a vote for Trump is not only tacit approval of a government of cronyism and oligarchy; and a forgiveness of straight acts of criminality and abuse of power/public trust; and allowing for a continued gutting of competency throughout governmental agencies; and a promotion of the continued culture of bullying, cruelty, and complete disregard for the majority of Americans; but most importantly it will not be just extending four more years of the same. A re-elected Trump, emboldened, will make the next 4 years far more extreme and with ZERO accountability.bearister said:
*I prefer Bernie to tRump. I think we can recover from a Bernie presidency but not so sure we can claw our way back from tRumpus Redux. The damage that fat orange f@uck will do to the environment and the SCOTUS with another 4 years in the Oval is a horrifying prospect. This still doesn't answer your question but my feeling is Bernie looks like he is going to get the nomination and win California in the General whether I vote for him or not. The people facing the real moral dilemma are those in the handful of key Electoral College states that hate Bernie and tRump equally.
Liz, but not for a long time.B.A. Bearacus said:
And then there were four: Bernie, Liz, Joe, Mike.
Who drops out next, Mike or Liz?
Professor Bearitas said:Liz, but not for a long time.B.A. Bearacus said:
And then there were four: Bernie, Liz, Joe, Mike.
Who drops out next, Mike or Liz?
Unit2Sucks said:
I think the discussions we have been having are now academic. If the country is able to successfully negotiate its way through the COVID19 outbreak, Trump skates to victory. If we have significant impacts (TBD on exactly what that means), Trump will be the scapegoat and Bernie will tout how M4A would have been better (Biden will point out that him not being an anti-science liar would have been better).
I think "success" will largely depend on how bad things get outside the country but I think anything in the neighborhood of 100k dead americans will be impossible for Trump to overcome. It would mean that our healthcare system was pushed far beyond the brink and potentially millions of Americans will have suffered catastrophic financial distress. The human impact plus the economic impact will be staggering. Anything less than 20k deaths will be a relief and Trump will rightfully tout how he navigated us through the worst public health crisis in the last 20 years. I hope that's what happens although it would mean 4 more years of Trump.
I definitely don't agree that the Coronavirus response will make-or-break Trump's reelection. If it goes really badly, then yeah, that probably would destroy his chances (much in the way any kind of market crash pretty much destroys the sitting President). But if we largely remain status quo . . . Trump is still underwater in job approval and always has been. He's hardly home free.OaktownBear said:
I also don't agree politically. No one knows what a reasonable number is for this, so you can claim victory or defeat with any final number
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Country run by investment bankers, just like under Obama.bearister said:
Inside a future Biden administration: His possible picks for VP and Cabinet - Axios
https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
Obama raised taxes and regulations on investment bankers. Trump cut them.Professor Harold Hill said:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Country run by investment bankers, just like under Obama.bearister said:
Inside a future Biden administration: His possible picks for VP and Cabinet - Axios
https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
LOLOLOLOLOLOL.dajo9 said:Obama raised taxes and regulations on investment bankers. Trump cut them.Professor Harold Hill said:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Country run by investment bankers, just like under Obama.bearister said:
Inside a future Biden administration: His possible picks for VP and Cabinet - Axios
https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
Chancellor Chang-Lin Tien said:LOLOLOLOLOLOL.dajo9 said:Obama raised taxes and regulations on investment bankers. Trump cut them.Professor Harold Hill said:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Country run by investment bankers, just like under Obama.bearister said:
Inside a future Biden administration: His possible picks for VP and Cabinet - Axios
https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
Who got bailed out, apology boy? Mortgage lenders or borrowers?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/12/democrats-cant-win-until-they-recognize-how-bad-obamas-financial-policies-were/dajo9 said:Bush bailed out the banksChancellor Chang-Lin Tien said:LOLOLOLOLOLOL.dajo9 said:Obama raised taxes and regulations on investment bankers. Trump cut them.Professor Harold Hill said:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Country run by investment bankers, just like under Obama.bearister said:
Inside a future Biden administration: His possible picks for VP and Cabinet - Axios
https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-cabinet-vice-president-picks-b17882ac-3953-450f-8afb-38a3c8dcda57.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
Who got bailed out, apology boy? Mortgage lenders or borrowers?
Obama bailed out neither but did bail out the auto industry saving numerous jobs (probably including mine).
Weird to call them the same.
golden sloth said:
It looks like Biden is taking Michigan, which will turn tonight into a big victory for him. Does Sanders stay in or does he drop out?
I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Yea, particularly if you look at the results of today. It was essentially a two-person race (Tulsi doesn't really count) and Biden beat Sanders in places he won against Clinton. This was a fair fight, and it turns out that more democrats wanted the moderate than the progressive. Biden won not only in the suburbs, and with black voters, but also with white working class rural people. That last one is the stinger, that should be Sanders' bread and butter.sycasey said:Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Bernie got his fair shot this time. He had high name ID going in. He was basically a national politician for four years. Several debates got high ratings. Turnout was up.
He just didn't win. That's how it goes sometimes.
No. Why would I support a corrupt Democratic establishment over a corrupt Republican president? Neither has shown me they're any better. I'll put my energy and resources into getting Republican senate incumbents out of office.bearister said:Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Hypothetical: If your vote for Biden resulted in a loss of the election for the orange demon, would you so cast it?
If not, why not?
It's still considered toxicgolden sloth said:
A public option was toxic a decade ago, now its considered moderate.
Professor Harry Edwards said:No. Why would I support a corrupt Democratic establishment over a corrupt Republican president? Neither has shown me they're any better. I'll put my energy and resources into getting Republican senate incumbents out of office.bearister said:Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Hypothetical: If your vote for Biden resulted in a loss of the election for the orange demon, would you so cast it?
If not, why not?
The Democratic primary was not rigged. Biden simply won (and Biden was not my guy). If you look at Sanders' he was never able to expand upon his base, even with name recognition, more money, and a more motivated base Sanders was not able to build a coalition of anyone but the hardcore. Sanders only jumped out to a lead because there were so many moderates splitting the vote early, not because people were voting for him. Again, he failed to build upon his base. Biden won fair and square, not by the DNC's orchestration.Professor Harry Edwards said:No. Why would I support a corrupt Democratic establishment over a corrupt Republican president? Neither has shown me they're any better. I'll put my energy and resources into getting Republican senate incumbents out of office.bearister said:Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Hypothetical: If your vote for Biden resulted in a loss of the election for the orange demon, would you so cast it?
If not, why not?
Professor Harry Edwards said:No. Why would I support a corrupt Democratic establishment over a corrupt Republican president? Neither has shown me they're any better. I'll put my energy and resources into getting Republican senate incumbents out of office.bearister said:Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Hypothetical: If your vote for Biden resulted in a loss of the election for the orange demon, would you so cast it?
If not, why not?
golden sloth said:Yea, particularly if you look at the results of today. It was essentially a two-person race (Tulsi doesn't really count) and Biden beat Sanders in places he won against Clinton. This was a fair fight, and it turns out that more democrats wanted the moderate than the progressive. Biden won not only in the suburbs, and with black voters, but also with white working class rural people. That last one is the stinger, that should be Sanders' bread and butter.sycasey said:Professor Harold Hill said:I'm not a Biden voter. I vote the way I want to, not the way a politician tells me to.bearister said:
If Biden is the nominee and Bernie tells his supporters to vote for Biden, will you Bernie supporters on BI vote for Joe?
If you'd wanted a team effort, maybe you should have treated all members of the team the same.
Bernie got his fair shot this time. He had high name ID going in. He was basically a national politician for four years. Several debates got high ratings. Turnout was up.
He just didn't win. That's how it goes sometimes.
That said, Bernie's revolution was successful in that a 'moderate' democrat in 2020 would have been considered a 'progressive' in 2012. The whole party moved left, and they are bringing young people, and the suburbs with them. A public option was toxic a decade ago, now its considered moderate.