2020 Election - Catch-all Thread

55,838 Views | 1652 Replies | Last: 12 hrs ago by Another Bear
bearister
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GBear4Life said:

..How hard is it for you dotards to understand that individuals aren't culpable for what idiots who support them do. ...


I think when Joseph Goebbels' attorney explained that defense to him in the bunker, Joe decided cyanide was a more viable option.
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B.A. Bearacus
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Feeling like it's a bad sign for Harris when she's not in the top two in California.

bearister
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With regard to GB's argument, it is true that tRump did not violate the Federal inciting violence statute, but in the court of public opinion of those with sound mind, tRump is morally and ethically responsible for acts of violence perpetrated by his disciples against those that he demonizes with his hate speech.
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BearNIt
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I guess the Idiot in Chief's previous comments concerning unity lasted but a few minutes today then he was back to doing what he does best being ugly and filthy. He cannot relate to people's pain and is ill-suited to lead a country through a time of great distress. Racism is the original sin of this country and some 245 years later this country still can't get its shiit together. If you think that Latinos and African Americans are going to forget what happened over the last couple of weeks then you should stick your head back in the sand and hope you don't get run over by what's coming. He will not be re-elected as there will be record turnout.
bearister
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Roy Cohn (McCarthy's attorney and later tRump's mentor) on Senator Joe McCarthy:

" 'I was fully aware of McCarthy's faults, which there were neither few nor minor," Cohn recalled. 'He was impatient, overly aggressive, overly dramatic. He acted on impulse. He tended to sensationalize the evidence he had in order to draw attention to the rock bottom seriousness of the situation. He would neglect to do important homework and consequently would, on occasion, make challengeable statements.' The urge to overstate, to overdramatize, to dominate the news, could be costly, and so it proved to be for McCarthy. The Wisconsin senator, Cohn said, was essentially a salesman. 'He was selling the story of America's peril,' Cohn recalled. 'He knew that he could never hope to convince anybody by delivering a dry, general accounting office type of presentation. In consequence, he stepped up circumstances a notch or two' and in so doing he opened himself to attacks that proved fatal. He oversold, and the customers, the public, tired of the pitch, and the pitchman." Jon Meacham, The Soul of America, Ch. 6, pp.202-203




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B.A. Bearacus
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Thank you #2 in polling.

BearNIt
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Is there anybody left in the U.S. that the Idiot in Chief hasn't pissed off other than white males?
offshorebear
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Dem race is down to 9, maybe 10 at next debate.

My top 5 and my desired ticket are...

1 Sanders
2 Warren
3 Buttigieg
4 Yang
5 Gabbard

Warren/Buttigieg. I love Sanders, but think Warren should lead the ticket in the end, and Mayor Pete is an excellent VP candidate.


Anybody else care to share theirs? Or tell me why Warren/Buttigieg can't defeat Trump/Pence in a landslide?
Anarchistbear
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Biden: "Poor kids are just as bright as white kids."

When does this "gaffe- prone" business stop and the Democrats realize this guy has a cognitive disorder problem? Before or after Trump plays with it?
bearister
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offshorebear said:

Dem race is down to 9, maybe 10 at next debate.

My top 5 and my desired ticket are...

1 Sanders
2 Warren
3 Buttigieg
4 Yang
5 Gabbard

Warren/Buttigieg. I love Sanders, but think Warren should lead the ticket in the end, and Mayor Pete is an excellent VP candidate.


Anybody else care to share theirs? Or tell me why Warren/Buttigieg can't defeat Trump/Pence in a landslide?


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump. We don't have a democracy. What we do have is dumbf@ucks wagging the dog because of the Electoral College.

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GBear4Life
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bearister said:


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump.
Thought that's what they said about Shillary? That the Dems needed the establishment moderate to win.
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

bearister said:


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump.
Thought that's what they said about Shillary? That the Dems needed the establishment moderate to win.
There were definitely people who assumed Obama couldn't win there because he was black . . . and then he took all the swing states, plus Indiana and North Carolina to boot.

I think people make a lot of assumptions about who can and can't win that aren't really based on anything.
bearister
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GBear4Life said:

bearister said:


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump.
Thought that's what they said about Shillary? That the Dems needed the establishment moderate to win.


...but that was before tRump had 4 years to establish he is far more of a f'ing moron than even his biggest critics believed was possible. Now the Dems just need to give the Deplorables another idiot on the menu and they may just go for the different flavor.


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dajo9
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GBear4Life said:

bearister said:


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump.
Thought that's what they said about Shillary? That the Dems needed the establishment moderate to win.


5% won't vote for women
An old white dude
bearister
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sycasey said:

...I think people make a lot of assumptions about who can and can't win that aren't really based on anything.


Here is an assumption based on nothing: a Progressive gets shredded in the Presidential Election.
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GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

bearister said:


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump.
Thought that's what they said about Shillary? That the Dems needed the establishment moderate to win.
There were definitely people who assumed Obama couldn't win there because he was black . . . and then he took all the swing states, plus Indiana and North Carolina to boot.

I think people make a lot of assumptions about who can and can't win that aren't really based on anything.
Did you read what I wrote?

I'm not arguing that assumptions are never wrong -- I'm implying the opposite. The assumption liberals made about Shillary were wrong.

And it appears people are making the same assumptions: that Biden is their only shot vs the progressives

Also, there was no significant belief on the Left that Barack would be a bad Dem nominee because he's black. At least it got zero traction.
Anarchistbear
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Clinton and Trump were both moderates.

They were also the two most unpopular Presidential candidates in modern polling history. In addition you had an enraged electorate demanding a change. People stayed home or held their nose
GBear4Life
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Trump was not a moderate, at least rhetorically. Anybody with any sense knew he'd govern by and large as a moderate, standard GOP establishment Republican.

But he insulted establishment Republicans all along the campaign trail, destroying their egos and some careers.
Anarchistbear
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He ran as a moderate. He criticized foreign wars including Iraq. He said he'd deliver a beautiful health care bill. He criticized corporations and in fact singled them out to bring jobs home. All of that was to the left of Republican orthodoxy. Now personally he's no moderate but his positions weren't extreme and in some cases were to the left of Clinton
GBear4Life
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Those issues you describe are radical within the GOP. That's not moderate.

As with most presidents, constrained by congress and the constitution once in office, has governed to the center of his campaign rhetoric.
Anarchistbear
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Radical for the GOP is moderate. The norm for the Democrats is also moderate. Nothing Trump or Clinton ran on was anything but moderate- in fact I'd argue the electorate was to the left of both
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

bearister said:


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump.
Thought that's what they said about Shillary? That the Dems needed the establishment moderate to win.
There were definitely people who assumed Obama couldn't win there because he was black . . . and then he took all the swing states, plus Indiana and North Carolina to boot.

I think people make a lot of assumptions about who can and can't win that aren't really based on anything.
Did you read what I wrote?

I'm not arguing that assumptions are never wrong -- I'm implying the opposite. The assumption liberals made about Shillary were wrong.

And it appears people are making the same assumptions: that Biden is their only shot vs the progressives

Also, there was no significant belief on the Left that Barack would be a bad Dem nominee because he's black. At least it got zero traction.
Even though I usually do, in this particular case I'm not arguing with you, just augmenting your point.
Another Bear
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If you take away the double speak and lies about policy position and all the crap that surrounds it, the majority of Americans are for progressive policies like a minimum wage people can live on, free college and good, affordable healthcare. Heck even Trumpkins want this, if you ask the question w/o trigger words...or do stuff like call it the ACA instead of Obamacare.

Moderates give this stuff lip service while sucking the corporate dick off, something fierce. Conservatives bend over and take that corporate dick right where corporations want to give it everyone...but they say "No lube for me, I'm a patriot sir, give it to me like an AMERICAN!"

bearister
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Free college? You gotta have some skin in the game. College is the training ground for drug addiction, alcoholism and sexual promiscuity. Colleges turn out kids with knowledge and skills that even Burger King isn't willing to issue a paycheck for. I would be willing to pay for a certificate in a trade for everyone, however.


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Another Bear
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Bearister, how much were fees at Cal for you back in the day?
bearister
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Another Bear said:

Bearister, how much were fees at Cal for you back in the day?

$212.50 per Quarter. That means the cost of 4 years snuck in a whisker under $3000. My monthly room and board $145.


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Another Bear
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bearister said:

Another Bear said:

Bearister, how much were fees at Cal for you back in the day?

$212.50 per Quarter. That means the cost of 4 years snuck in a whisker under $3000. My monthly room and board $145.

Since your time at Cal, inflation has changed that $215/quarter to $1,300. So times that by 3, and you get $3,900 per year for fees. Way down from the current $13k.

Okay so don't make it free, just make it affordable and in scale with current wages. Instead fees are about 10x that and rent...forgetaboutit. Still $13k is a tough row with current wages.

In any case, here's something for the old guy brain...it's not really about free college, more about making it affordable. You know how negotiations works, the top number is usually a decoy. The idea remains the same - education is the surest way out of poverty. Also if you want the U.S. to be competitive educationally, might want to look at what other industrialized countries are doing...fully free education.

My old man paid $5 bucks/semester at Cal during the 40s. That's essentially free. He use to make $20 bucks a night as a busboy in a SF nights club. He became an engineer, worked in Silicon Valley from the get go. Many patents for HP and DEC. All from basically free college.

Very affordable education, essentially free, build the great California economy. I'm for keeping that. It's good for the state and its residents.

I for one am grateful I paid so little, I think $1,200 per year at the end in '87. Enough to want that for future generations. It's a good thing.
offshorebear
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bearister said:

offshorebear said:

Dem race is down to 9, maybe 10 at next debate.

My top 5 and my desired ticket are...

1 Sanders
2 Warren
3 Buttigieg
4 Yang
5 Gabbard

Warren/Buttigieg. I love Sanders, but think Warren should lead the ticket in the end, and Mayor Pete is an excellent VP candidate.


Anybody else care to share theirs? Or tell me why Warren/Buttigieg can't defeat Trump/Pence in a landslide?


Because mom and pop in the flyovers that control the key to the Electoral College will only vote for tRump or Biden. If you run the Dems you list, mom and pop will vote for only tRump. We don't have a democracy. What we do have is dumbf@ucks wagging the dog because of the Electoral College.



I get the argument but as Buttigieg has said, they're going to call them all communists anyways, so might as well stand up for what is actually right in the process.

Another centrist, moderate Republican like Joe Biden being nominated by the DNC isn't my view of right when it comes to the choices in the party. I personally think Buttigieg is about as conservative as anybody should be and still be representing left politics in government. He'd be center right in many countries similar to ours. Biden is well right of him and is bought and sold many times over by untold interests, least of which is corporations. He was the Senator for Delaware for 36 years, one of the centers for industry and lobbying in the country per area, because of the taxes. That nearly 4 decade period of his career was centered around faciliating that "business friendly" atmosphere in his state. He is a male Hillary. I just cant abide man.

Give me the idealistic and principled and trustworthy and good-faith Dems running over him, like Warren, Sanders, and Yang. I draw the line at Orb Goddess Marianne Williamson. I am enchanted by her, but she shouldnt be president.
GBear4Life
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Warren won't win a general election.
sycasey
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GBear4Life said:

Warren won't win a general election.


And we are back to disagreement. Such certainty. Isn't this what people said about Trump?
OdontoBear66
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Lotsa people named Bill, Albert and Alan are breathing effortlessly this morning.
GBear4Life
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sycasey said:

GBear4Life said:

Warren won't win a general election.


And we are back to disagreement. Such certainty. Isn't this what people said about Trump?
Not certain at all.

And I was one of those who assumed HRC would win in a land slide in 2016.
BearNakedLadies
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offshorebear said:

Dem race is down to 9, maybe 10 at next debate.

My top 5 and my desired ticket are...

1 Sanders
2 Warren
3 Buttigieg
4 Yang
5 Gabbard

Warren/Buttigieg. I love Sanders, but think Warren should lead the ticket in the end, and Mayor Pete is an excellent VP candidate.


Anybody else care to share theirs? Or tell me why Warren/Buttigieg can't defeat Trump/Pence in a landslide?
I think Bernie is bleeding supporters to Warren.
bearister
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BearNakedLadies said:

..I think Bernie is bleeding supporters to Warren.


Well that's not good news because now instead of being vindictive Bernie crybabies they will become vindictive Warren crybabies and they won't vote for Sleepy Joe if he gets the nomination and the Orange Tub of Guts wins again.
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Anarchistbear
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Today's cognitive disorder Joe Biden update:

Biden told reporters in Iowa on Saturday that "those kids in Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president." But when they visited Capitol Hill to talk with members of Congress, lawmakers were "basically cowering, not wanting to see them. They did not want to face it on camera."

Ok, Joe but you weren't in office then.

So which Democrat asks first for results of his "Ageing related tests". I'd go with Kamala. She'd f$ck a rattlesnake if there was something for her benefit
 
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