Coronavirus vs Trump

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bearister
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*It makes me snicker to see Gov. Newsom at 24%, lower than tRump. The hillbillies jus hate Californy. Too bad, more of their kin folk could be saved if Newsom was leading their wagon train.
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NYCGOBEARS
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Big C said:

Yes, NYC, I read your similar opinion on another thread. As you are closer to the situation, I'd be interested in your response to Oaktown's comments. (The numbers from NY, NJ, CT and PN together are now horrific.)

That is the view from out here, but, like I said, you are closer to the situation.

Would also be interested in you elaborating on de Blasio. I saw him on Bill Maher last year and was very impressed, but, you know: small sample size (very small!).

PS: To you and my friends and family in the greater NYC area, stay safe!

Oaktown is right about the original sin But there's more to it than that. Waiting the extra week was the big mistake. My use of the word "suboptimal" notwithstanding. I don't want to parse those words. De Blasio took this situation far too lightly early on, unlike London Breed. De Blasio is all hat and no cattle. Large, grand progressive ideas with poor management and people skills. He's also tone deaf as hell.

There was fear of shutting down the NYC economy, which had not just regional, but global implications. Sorry, SF's economy doesn't compare. That was a huge factor in the delay I'm sure. Also, infected people fleeing Manhattan for adjacent areas was and remains a huge concern. Oaktown discounts having a multi state approach but he's basing that on too few factors. Even after shutting down the state of New York, there still would have been too much travel in the extended region. California, with its comparative lack of density, size and being mostly suburban was always going to have a different trajectory, in any scenario.

I believe there was a struggle early on between Cuomo and De Blasio over strategy and that Cuomo ultimately prevailed. Cuomo waited too long deferring to De Blasio I believe.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. I'm so very happy that California most likely will not be suffering as badly as we'd thought and much of that has to do with good leadership. But comparing the situation to New York's is ridiculous because the inherent situations are so completely different.

New York's infection rate and death rate are below projections at the moment. God willing, it stays that way. This was always going to be a problem here. How much could it have been mitigated by an earlier shut down? Who knows? It certainly would have helped.

Some areas, may just get lucky. And some unlucky. We won't know for quite some time. It's way too early for the post mortem (apt phrase). It's far too early for assigning too much praise. This thing may pop up again in the Fall and kill many more people. In any place.

I'm so very glad that I have Cuomo as my governor, as you in California should be with Newsom. There are many states that have little to no leadership right now. At least not good leadership. De Blasio needs to go yesterday. He was a clown prior to this and he's been one consistently through it. The one thing I'll give him credit for is taking a back seat to Cuomo. He realized quickly that he was in over his head.

Using the timeline and the one big mistake of delay (yes, it was a big one Oaktown) as factors in judging this situation is too simplistic. The situation here was massively complicated in every single way. Every region of the country will have it's unique challenges.

Sorry if this is rambling, as it Is complicated and I'm working off memory as I type this on my iPhone on the fire escape. It is a beautiful day. I'll enjoy it.

Be safe all. Go Bears!


sycasey
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bearister said:





*It makes me snicker to see Gov. Newsom at 24%, lower than tRump. The hillbillies jus hate Californy. Too bad, more of their kin folk could be saved if Newsom was leading their wagon train.
Given the splits (Newsom +2, Trump -10), this would seem to be more about people having no opinion of Newsom than disliking him.
bearister
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*I'm pretty sure the deadliest fake news in history is that which came out of tRump's own mouth and from his Fox News advocates when they were underplaying the danger of COVID 19.
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bearister
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How much stock do you figure the tRump Crime Family owns in the companies involved with hydroxychloroquine?
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okaydo
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okaydo
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Anarchistbear
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Boris Johnson really does believe in herd immunity.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Anarchistbear said:

Boris Johnson really does believe in herd immunity.
Boris makes every effort to lead by example.
Yogi04
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NYCGOBEARS said:

Big C said:

I'm so very glad that I have Cuomo as my governor
Using the timeline and the one big mistake of delay (yes, it was a big one Oaktown) as factors in judging this situation is too simplistic. The situation here was massively complicated in every single way. Every region of the country will have it's unique challenges.

Sorry if this is rambling, as it Is complicated and I'm working off memory as I type this on my iPhone on the fire escape. It is a beautiful day. I'll enjoy it.

Be safe all. Go Bears!
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/covid-ny-hospital-medicaid/

"But the same Cuomo who is racing to expand New York's hospital capacity and crying out for more federal resources is quietly trying to slash Medicaid funding in the state, enraging doctors and nurses, and elected officials of his own party. The same Cuomo who holds press briefings at a major New York City convention center, now the home of a temporary 1,000-bed hospital, presided over a decade of hospital closures and consolidations, prioritizing cost savings over keeping popular health care institutions open."

"Andrew Cuomo has repeatedly stated, over and over again, that New York has excess capacity of hospital beds, that it's too expensive and not needed and we need to reduce spending. He said this over and over again throughout his entire tenure," said Sean Petty, a pediatric nurse at a public hospital in the Bronx and a high-ranking member of the state's politically active nurses' union. "If this budget goes through in April, next year's health and hospitals budget is going to be devastating."

"It's obscene," said State Senator Gustavo Rivera, a Bronx Democrat who chairs the Senate Health Committee. "These are immoral actions that the governor is taking."

It's important to judge politicians on their actions, rather than their public relations ability.

NYCGOBEARS
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bearister said:

How much stock do you figure the tRump Crime Family owns in the companies involved with hydroxychloroquine?

bearister
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If military law applied: Dereliction of Duty, war profiteering and execution at dawn.
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NYCGOBEARS
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Professor Henry Higgins said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

Big C said:

I'm so very glad that I have Cuomo as my governor
Using the timeline and the one big mistake of delay (yes, it was a big one Oaktown) as factors in judging this situation is too simplistic. The situation here was massively complicated in every single way. Every region of the country will have it's unique challenges.

Sorry if this is rambling, as it Is complicated and I'm working off memory as I type this on my iPhone on the fire escape. It is a beautiful day. I'll enjoy it.

Be safe all. Go Bears!
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/covid-ny-hospital-medicaid/

"But the same Cuomo who is racing to expand New York's hospital capacity and crying out for more federal resources is quietly trying to slash Medicaid funding in the state, enraging doctors and nurses, and elected officials of his own party. The same Cuomo who holds press briefings at a major New York City convention center, now the home of a temporary 1,000-bed hospital, presided over a decade of hospital closures and consolidations, prioritizing cost savings over keeping popular health care institutions open."

"Andrew Cuomo has repeatedly stated, over and over again, that New York has excess capacity of hospital beds, that it's too expensive and not needed and we need to reduce spending. He said this over and over again throughout his entire tenure," said Sean Petty, a pediatric nurse at a public hospital in the Bronx and a high-ranking member of the state's politically active nurses' union. "If this budget goes through in April, next year's health and hospitals budget is going to be devastating."

"It's obscene," said State Senator Gustavo Rivera, a Bronx Democrat who chairs the Senate Health Committee. "These are immoral actions that the governor is taking."

It's important to judge politicians on their actions, rather than their public relations ability.



You're misrepresenting my opinions with your post. I'm not a huge Cuomo fan or supporter. He has many flaws. He has handled the issues surrounding the coronavirus well. Not perfectly, but well.
GBear4Life
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bearister said:





*It makes me snicker to see Gov. Newsom at 24%, lower than tRump. The hillbillies jus hate Californy. Too bad, more of their kin folk could be saved if Newsom was leading their wagon train.
Newsom is to many conservatives what Trump is to many liberals (and many conservatives lol).
okaydo
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NYC: What is your take on Cuomo vs Train Daddy?
golden sloth
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GBear4Life said:

bearister said:





*It makes me snicker to see Gov. Newsom at 24%, lower than tRump. The hillbillies jus hate Californy. Too bad, more of their kin folk could be saved if Newsom was leading their wagon train.
Newsom is to many conservatives what Trump is to many liberals (and many conservatives lol).
In all honesty, isn't whomever is California's governor going to be to conservatives what Trump is to liberals?
GBear4Life
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golden sloth said:

GBear4Life said:

bearister said:





*It makes me snicker to see Gov. Newsom at 24%, lower than tRump. The hillbillies jus hate Californy. Too bad, more of their kin folk could be saved if Newsom was leading their wagon train.
Newsom is to many conservatives what Trump is to many liberals (and many conservatives lol).
In all honesty, isn't whomever is California's governor going to be to conservatives what Trump is to liberals?
To some, I'm sure. Newsom's rhetoric and policies epitomize some of what conservatives hate more so than other liberals, like Jerry Brown I imagine. Similar to how Southern governors come off to progressive West Coasters
sycasey
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golden sloth said:

GBear4Life said:

bearister said:





*It makes me snicker to see Gov. Newsom at 24%, lower than tRump. The hillbillies jus hate Californy. Too bad, more of their kin folk could be saved if Newsom was leading their wagon train.
Newsom is to many conservatives what Trump is to many liberals (and many conservatives lol).
In all honesty, isn't whomever is California's governor going to be to conservatives what Trump is to liberals?

That's not what this is though. Trump's favorable + unfavorable ratings add up to 96%, indicating that almost everyone has an opinion of him (of course they do, he's the President). Newsom's ratings only add up to 46%, indicating that over half of people who took this poll had no opinion of him (probably because they don't live in California). Newsom isn't liked less than Trump, he's less known nationwide.
Anarchistbear
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Pelosi is a better comparison. She is even worse than Trump
bearister
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Anarchistbear said:

Pelosi is a better comparison. She is even worse than Trump

Why don't you write a fact based supporting essay on that talking point.
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Anarchistbear
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See below. She's followed by Mitch McConnell and Hillary Clinton

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bearister
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My bad. I misunderstood.
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Anarchistbear
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No problem. Bearister, have you read " Say Nothing" Patrick Raddon's book about the troubles in Northern Island. Murder and mayhem-very well done. Highly recommended
bearister
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Yeah, I read it in October and then watched this documentary:


It is interesting that she was married to Stephen Rea, star of The Crying Game.
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Unit2Sucks
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Surprised Bearister hasn't posted this Axios report yet:

Docs: Navarro memos warning mass death circulated West Wing in January

Quote:

In late January, President Trump's economic adviser Peter Navarro warned his White House colleagues the novel coronavirus could take more than half a million American lives and cost close to $6 trillion, according to memos obtained by Axios.

  • By late February, Navarro was even more alarmed, and he warned his colleagues, in another memo, that up to two million Americans could die of the virus.
Driving the news: Navarro's grim estimates are set out in two memos one dated Jan. 29 and addressed to the National Security Council, the other dated Feb. 23 and addressed to the president. The NSC circulated both memos around the White House and multiple agencies.

  • In the first memo, which the New York Times was first to report on, Navarro makes his case for "an immediate travel ban on China."
  • The second lays the groundwork for supplemental requests from Congress, with the warning: "This is NOT a time for penny-pinching or horse trading on the Hill."

Why it matters:
The president quickly restricted travel from China, moved to delay re-entry of American travelers who could be infected, and dispatched his team to work with Congress on stimulus funds.


One senior administration official
who received Navarro's memos said at the time they were skeptical of his motives and thus his warnings: "The January travel memo struck me as an alarmist attempt to bring attention to Peter's anti-China agenda while presenting an artificially limited range of policy options."

  • "The supplemental memo lacked any basis for its projections, which led some staff to worry that it could needlessly rattle markets and may not direct funding where it was truly needed."

Navarro declined to comment
for this story.

Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon
defended Navarro's motives, calling the memos "prophetic" and saying Navarro was forced to put his concerns in writing because "there was total blockage to get these facts in front of the President of the United States."

  • The "naivete, arrogance and ignorance" of White House advisers who disagreed with Navarro "put the country and the world in jeopardy," Bannon said, adding that Navarro was sidelined from the task force after the memo.
  • "In this Kafkaesque nightmare, nobody would pay attention to him or the facts."


So much for "nobody could have predicted this." Say what you want about Pete Navarro, but seems like his team pretty much nailed it and given the White House's inabiity to discern fact from fiction, he was completely ignored. I am not nominally a fan of Navarro - I think he has no business being in the white house and his China agenda is dangerous (wouldn't it be great if we weren't deep into a trade war with China and didn't still have tariffs on ventilator parts?) but he got this one right. Of course, he's now arguing with Fauci over the effectiveness of HCQ so ...
NYCGOBEARS
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Unit2Sucks said:

Surprised Bearister hasn't posted this Axios report yet:

Docs: Navarro memos warning mass death circulated West Wing in January

Quote:

In late January, President Trump's economic adviser Peter Navarro warned his White House colleagues the novel coronavirus could take more than half a million American lives and cost close to $6 trillion, according to memos obtained by Axios.

  • By late February, Navarro was even more alarmed, and he warned his colleagues, in another memo, that up to two million Americans could die of the virus.
Driving the news: Navarro's grim estimates are set out in two memos one dated Jan. 29 and addressed to the National Security Council, the other dated Feb. 23 and addressed to the president. The NSC circulated both memos around the White House and multiple agencies.

  • In the first memo, which the New York Times was first to report on, Navarro makes his case for "an immediate travel ban on China."
  • The second lays the groundwork for supplemental requests from Congress, with the warning: "This is NOT a time for penny-pinching or horse trading on the Hill."

Why it matters:
The president quickly restricted travel from China, moved to delay re-entry of American travelers who could be infected, and dispatched his team to work with Congress on stimulus funds.


One senior administration official
who received Navarro's memos said at the time they were skeptical of his motives and thus his warnings: "The January travel memo struck me as an alarmist attempt to bring attention to Peter's anti-China agenda while presenting an artificially limited range of policy options."

  • "The supplemental memo lacked any basis for its projections, which led some staff to worry that it could needlessly rattle markets and may not direct funding where it was truly needed."

Navarro declined to comment
for this story.

Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon
defended Navarro's motives, calling the memos "prophetic" and saying Navarro was forced to put his concerns in writing because "there was total blockage to get these facts in front of the President of the United States."

  • The "naivete, arrogance and ignorance" of White House advisers who disagreed with Navarro "put the country and the world in jeopardy," Bannon said, adding that Navarro was sidelined from the task force after the memo.
  • "In this Kafkaesque nightmare, nobody would pay attention to him or the facts."


So much for "nobody could have predicted this." Say what you want about Pete Navarro, but seems like his team pretty much nailed it and given the White House's inabiity to discern fact from fiction, he was completely ignored. I am not nominally a fan of Navarro - I think he has no business being in the white house and his China agenda is dangerous (wouldn't it be great if we weren't deep into a trade war with China and didn't still have tariffs on ventilator parts?) but he got this one right. Of course, he's now arguing with Fauci over the effectiveness of HCQ so ...


If Navarro is the smartest person in Trump's inner circle, we're fu$&ed.
bearister
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Charge: Dereliction of Duty

Penalty:



When: Dawn


Wisconsin lieutenant governor calls election a 's--t show' | TheHill


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/491511-wisconsin-lieutenant-governor-calls-election-a-****-show
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Americans Are Paying the Price for Trump's Failures - The Atlantic


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/

" That the pandemic occurred is not Trump's fault.

The utter unpreparedness of the United States for a pandemic is Trump's fault.

The loss of stockpiled respirators to breakage because the federal government let maintenance contracts lapse in 2018 is Trump's fault.

The failure to store sufficient protective medical gear in the national arsenal is Trump's fault.

That states are bidding against other states for equipment, paying many multiples of the precrisis price for ventilators, is Trump's fault.

Air travelers summoned home and forced to stand for hours in dense airport crowds alongside infected people? That was Trump's fault too.

Ten weeks of insisting that the coronavirus is a harmless flu that would miraculously go away on its own? Trump's fault again.

The refusal of red-state governors to act promptly, the failure to close Florida and Gulf Coast beaches until late March? That fault is more widely shared, but again, responsibility rests with Trump: He could have stopped it, and he did not.

The lying about the coronavirus by hosts on Fox News and conservative talk radio is Trump's fault: They did it to protect him.

The false hope of instant cures and nonexistent vaccines is Trump's fault, because he told those lies to cover up his failure to act in time.

The severity of the economic crisis is Trump's fault; things would have been less bad if he had acted faster instead of sending out his chief economic adviser and his son Eric to assure Americans that the first stock-market dips were buying opportunities.

The firing of a Navy captain for speaking truthfully about the virus's threat to his crew? Trump's fault.

The fact that so many key government jobs were either empty or filled by mediocrities? Trump's fault.

The insertion of Trump's arrogant and incompetent son-in-law as commander in chief of the national medical supply chain? Trump's fault. ....

Throughout the crisis, the top priority of the president, and of everyone who works for the president, has been the protection of his ego. Americans have become sadly used to Trump's blustery self-praise and his insatiable appetite for flattery. During the pandemic, this psychological deformity has mutated into a deadly strategic vulnerability for the United States.....

As the pandemic kills, as the economic depression tightens its grip, Donald Trump has consistently put his own needs first. Right now, when his only care should be to beat the pandemic, Trump is renegotiating his debts with his bankers and lease payments with Palm Beach County....

He has never tried to be president of the whole United States, but at most 46 percent of it, to the extent that serving even the 46 percent has been consistent with his supreme concerns: stealing, loafing, and whining. Now he is not even serving the 46 percent. The people most victimized by his lies and fantasies are the people who trusted him, the more conservative Americans who harmed themselves to prove their loyalty to Trump. An Arkansas pastor told The Washington Post of congregants "ready to lick the floor" to support the president's claim that there is nothing to worry about. On March 15, the Trump-loyal governor of Oklahoma tweeted a since-deleted photo of himself and his children at a crowded restaurant buffet. "Eating with my kids and all my fellow Oklahomans at the @CollectiveOKC. It's packed tonight!" Those who took their cues from Trump and the media who propagandized for him, and all Americans, will suffer for it." David Frum

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AunBear89
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Cue TDS meme/rant from GB4L in 3...2...
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
okaydo
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bearister
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In the end when times are bad they all become Keynesians and look to big government to bail them out.



COVID Is Forcing the GOP to Admit Its Ideology Is Delusional
Trump's DHS declares undocumented workers "essential," while Steve Mnuchin scrambles to reconstruct the "administrative state."

Read in New York Magazine: https://apple.news/Aywo9xsRLQu6cSxbE4eS04w
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GBear4Life
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AunBear89 said:

Cue TDS meme/rant from GB4L in 3...2...






Ask and you shall receive!
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