OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

bearister
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Alan M. Dershowitz was on Team OJ which firmly established him in the Legal Prostitute Hall of Fame. He doesn't know what evidence Captain Mueller has turned up that proves crimes were committed. I wonder what AD thinks 5 tRump associates pleading guilty to felony charges is indicative of? Whether there was another procedural path to follow to go after this den of rascals I don't really care but I will admit that having Captain Mueller and his crack team running the show is comforting. Semper Fi! Oorah!

List of Guilty Pleas in Special Counsel Investigation (2017 to Present):

Rick Gates

Michael Flynn

George Papadopoulos

Richard Pinedo

Alex R. van der Zwaan

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Unit2Sucks
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Another Bear said:

Sorry to hammer this, but with CEO compensation now close to 1,000x the average employee, I'm not listening to any rationalization regarding corporations at this point. This is Manhattan Oil. The CEO makes close to 1,000x the average worker. Or put in perspective, the worker has to work close to 1,000 YEARS to earn what he earns in ONE YEAR. That's not healthy, or normal in any other country.


I haven't objected to this point. I think that CEO pay can be criticized without making hyperbolic claims about CEOs being psychopaths who are unaccountable to anyone which simply isn't true.
sycasey
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bearister said:

Alan M. Dershowitz was on Team OJ which firmly established him in the Legal Prostitute Hall of Fame. He doesn't know what evidence Captain Mueller has turned up that proves crimes were committed. I wonder what AD thinks 5 tRump associates pleading guilty to felony charges is indicative of? Whether there was another procedural path to follow to go after this den of rascals I don't really care but I will admit that having Captain Mueller and his crack team running the show is comforting. Semper Fi! Oorah!



Dershowitz is not wrong that Congress should have convened a special investigative commission. I'm sure the Republican leaders in both houses are going to get right on that soon.

But until then, I see no good reason to impugn the efforts of Mueller's team.
dajo9
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bearister said:

Alan M. Dershowitz was on Team OJ which firmly established him in the Legal Prostitute Hall of Fame. He doesn't know what evidence Captain Mueller has turned up that proves crimes were committed. I wonder what AD thinks 5 tRump associates pleading guilty to felony charges is indicative of? Whether there was another procedural path to follow to go after this den of rascals I don't really care but I will admit that having Captain Mueller and his crack team running the show is comforting. Semper Fi! Oorah!

List of Guilty Pleas in Special Counsel Investigation (2017 to Present):

Rick Gates

Michael Flynn

George Papadopoulos

Richard Pinedo

Alex R. van der Zwaan


Dershowitz is a crafty wordsmith. Here is a sentence he uses, "There was no evidence of any crime committed by the Trump administration". Administration is a good word to use there because there is tons of evidence a crime was committed in the Trump campaign. As bearister notes above, we have 5 guilty pleas, 3 of whom were involved in the Trump campaign.

Dershowitz is pushing the Trump agenda here. Trump is actively trying to obstruct justice by wreaking havoc on the FBI. Then he and his actors can say, the water is all muddy let's discredit everything going now and start over with an ineffective committee that won't be able to come to any conclusions.

I don't know when or why Dershowitz decided to sell his soul. I don't know why anybody would post his garbage here.
B.A. Bearacus
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I'll go with the esteemed law professor Laurence Tribe over OJ defense team member Alan D.
Another Bear
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It's not longer just about the Russkies. It's now about Cambridge Analytica, a corporation working INSIDE the U.S.


Anarchistbear
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Dershowitz is a sorry apologist for Israel and of course their favorite President.
bearister
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Another Bear said:

It's not longer just about the Russkies. It's now about Cambridge Analytica, a corporation working INSIDE the U.S.




Not so fast:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/10/16/15657512/cambridge-analytica-mccabe-facebook-aleksandr-kogan-trump-russia
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bearister
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Anarchistbear said:

Dershowitz is a sorry apologist for Israel and of course their favorite President.

Even a guilty man is entitled under our laws to make the state prove its case against him. A criminal defense attorney can be moral and ethical in defending a guilty man by making sure the state follows the law during its prosecution. Where attorneys like Dershowitz cross the line is when they actively advance a defense theory that they know is untrue, like in the OJ case. One need go no further than examine the look on Robert Kardashian's face when the foreman read the not guilty verdict. It is the expression of a man that still had some semblance of a conscience left. He knew OJ just got away with murder X 2. Kardashian also felt he had a black stain on his soul for being on The Dream Team.
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mikecohen
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bearister said:

Anarchistbear said:

Dershowitz is a sorry apologist for Israel and of course their favorite President.

Even a guilty man is entitled under our laws to make the state prove its case against him. A criminal defense attorney can be moral and ethical in defending a guilty man by making sure the state follows the law during its prosecution. Where attorneys like Dershowitz cross the line is when they actively advance a defense theory that they know is untrue, like in the OJ case. One need go no further than examine the look on Robert Kardashian's face when the foreman read the not guilty verdict. It is the expression of a man that still had some semblance of a conscience left. He knew OJ just got away with murder X 2. Kardashian also felt he had a black stain on his soul for being on The Dream Team.
I don't know that I've ever seen that stated so powerfully!
Another Bear
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Okay, so it's the same cluster****...just bigger, dumber and stupider. Great.
B.A. Bearacus
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Jeremy Bash, former chief of staff at the DoD and CIA, breaks down Trump's groveling to Putin this way...

Odds on the explanation for Trump's behavior:
2%: Russia has something personally on Trump
2%: Trump has figured out something in international relations that no one else has figured out
96%: There are financial ties between the Trump organization and the Russian Federation and people around Putin where they can wipe Trump out financially and he doesn't want to offend them.
[Source]
B.A. Bearacus
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Enjoyable exchange tonight between Dershowitz and former pupil Jeffrey Toobin:
iwantwinners
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bearister said:

Alan M. Dershowitz was on Team OJ which firmly established him in the Legal Prostitute Hall of Fame.

LOL...

...come on you wouldn't be a consultant to a legal team defending an alleged double-murderer? It's what defense attorneys do I thought...
iwantwinners
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bearister said:

Anarchistbear said:

Dershowitz is a sorry apologist for Israel and of course their favorite President.

Even a guilty man is entitled under our laws to make the state prove its case against him. A criminal defense attorney can be moral and ethical in defending a guilty man by making sure the state follows the law during its prosecution. Where attorneys like Dershowitz cross the line is when they actively advance a defense theory that they know is untrue, like in the OJ case. One need go no further than examine the look on Robert Kardashian's face when the foreman read the not guilty verdict. It is the expression of a man that still had some semblance of a conscience left. He knew OJ just got away with murder X 2. Kardashian also felt he had a black stain on his soul for being on The Dream Team.
LMAO This is done ALL the time by defense attorneys (not all, but tons). They have to, or there'd be little work.
iwantwinners
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For the attorneys out there, what about this ethical dilemma:

What is the moral position when you know you're certain your client is guilty of a heinous crime, but you also believe, based on evidence, that LE is stacking the deck against him such as planting evidence (e.g. Making a Murderer, Steve Avery)?

Is one a scumbag for taking the case and fighting for the case to be thrown out and your client free?
bearister
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iwantwinners said:

For the attorneys out there, what about this ethical dilemma:

What is the moral position when you know you're certain your client is guilty of a heinous crime, but you also believe, based on evidence, that LE is stacking the deck against him such as planting evidence (e.g. Making a Murderer, Steve Avery)?

Is one a scumbag for taking the case and fighting for the case to be thrown out and your client free?


https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/representing-client-whom-the-lawyer-thinks-is-guilty.html
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BearNIt
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Does it matter that John Brennan the Ex Head of the CIA under the Obama Administration and the person that may have gone to Comey to open an investigation into Trump and the Russians said today that he believes that Putin has something on Trump? Brennan knows what Putin has on Trump, but can't say.

"When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history. You may scapegoat Andy McCabe, but you will not destroy America...America will triumph over you."

John Brennan


Does it matter that Gen. Barry McCaffrey has indicated that Trump is a" Clear threat to US national security and our European allies"?




oski003
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What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
bearister
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BearNIt said:

Does it matter that John Brennan the Ex Head of the CIA under the Obama Administration and the person that may have gone to Comey to open an investigation into Trump and the Russians said today that he believes that Putin has something on Trump? Brennan knows what Putin has on Trump, but can't say.

"When the full extent of your venality, moral turpitude, and political corruption becomes known, you will take your rightful place as a disgraced demagogue in the dustbin of history. You may scapegoat Andy McCabe, but you will not destroy America...America will triumph over you."

John Brennan


Does it matter that Gen. Barry McCaffrey has indicated that Trump is a" Clear threat to US national security and our European allies"?





The answer to your question is: No, it doesn't matter, as long as he purports to be Pro Life, promotes tax cuts for the wealthy and fosters racism.
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sycasey
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oski003 said:

What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
Yes, because that's how criminal investigations work. Detectives and prosecutors just spit out everything they have for public consumption before bringing charges against you.
BearNIt
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oski003 said:

What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
I get the feeling that Mueller is working towards that end. With the entry of Cambridge Analytics, Facebook, reappearance of Steve Bannon, and other key figures in the Trump campaign, Mueller has more question to ask and will not be rushed. With the Big Cheeto losing good attorney's and replacing them with conspiracy theorist and hacks, it looks like he is getting more worked up and will make the same mistake that Nixon made. Only time will tell, but his love for all things Putin is strange given he has bad mouthed almost all our allies, his own staff, and democrats, but not Russia, Putin, or Stormy Daniels. Sunday should be interesting, don't you think?
iwantwinners
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moralizing of the white house to advance and dispute political agendas, when they have little to do with each other. Both parties take turns, and their ideological constituents follow suit.
BearNIt
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"Politics is a contact sport."

Steve Chabot

"Most successful pundits are selected for being opinionated, because it's interesting, and the penalties for incorrect predictions are negligible. You can make predictions, and a year later people won't remember them."

Daniel Kahneman


oski003
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
Yes, because that's how criminal investigations work. Detectives and prosecutors just spit out everything they have for public consumption before bringing charges against you.


It's been 1 year, 8 months. It sure takes a long time to build a case against what many here call an idiot. I'll try to be more patient. I also don't understand why Mueller's focus is shifting to obstruction, especially in light of Brennan's apparent 'smoking gun.'
Another Bear
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It took Watergate two years to runs it's course after Nixon was in office. Trump's case seems way more complicated with way more moving parts...but I think Mueller comes in under 2 years...or Trump cracks.
Anarchistbear
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Brennan is a malevolent creature and liar. It's a pity nobody pays attention to these guys when they are in office.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/31/cia-director-john-brennan-lied-senate
sycasey
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
Yes, because that's how criminal investigations work. Detectives and prosecutors just spit out everything they have for public consumption before bringing charges against you.


It's been 1 year, 8 months. It sure takes a long time to build a case against what many here call an idiot. I'll try to be more patient. I also don't understand why Mueller's focus is shifting to obstruction, especially in light of Brennan's apparent 'smoking gun.'
If the case is complicated, then yes, it takes a long time. See Watergate.
iwantwinners
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I don't understand how Trump being impeached vindicates and/or validates any aspect liberal/leftist/Democrat ideology. It doesn't. They stand or fall on its own merits. A Republican will replace Trump if impeached, so it might be a net loss for Democrats.
dajo9
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
Yes, because that's how criminal investigations work. Detectives and prosecutors just spit out everything they have for public consumption before bringing charges against you.
That only happens if your name is Clinton
bearister
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iwantwinners said:

I don't understand how Trump being impeached vindicates and/or validates any aspect liberal/leftist/Democrat ideology. It doesn't. They stand or fall on its own merits. A Republican will replace Trump if impeached, so it might be a net loss for Democrats.

I'll settle for anyone sane, with an above average IQ and not a traitor.
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iwantwinners
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bearister said:

iwantwinners said:

I don't understand how Trump being impeached vindicates and/or validates any aspect liberal/leftist/Democrat ideology. It doesn't. They stand or fall on its own merits. A Republican will replace Trump if impeached, so it might be a net loss for Democrats.

I'll settle for anyone sane, with an above average IQ and not a traitor.
Ok, can I bookmark this post lol

You'll 'settle' for Pence?????
iwantwinners
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dajo9 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
Yes, because that's how criminal investigations work. Detectives and prosecutors just spit out everything they have for public consumption before bringing charges against you.
That only happens if your name is Clinton
dajo9
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iwantwinners said:

bearister said:

iwantwinners said:

I don't understand how Trump being impeached vindicates and/or validates any aspect liberal/leftist/Democrat ideology. It doesn't. They stand or fall on its own merits. A Republican will replace Trump if impeached, so it might be a net loss for Democrats.

I'll settle for anyone sane, with an above average IQ and not a traitor.
Ok, can I bookmark this post lol

You'll 'settle' for Pence?????
I'd vote against Pence, but I wouldn't view him as a threat to the Republic like I view Trump. He's a more religious George W Bush, so he'd probably be in the bottom 1/4 of US Presidents. History will put Trump squarely at the bottom.
dajo9
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iwantwinners said:

dajo9 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

What does he have on Trump? Spit it out, so we can impeach and move on.
Yes, because that's how criminal investigations work. Detectives and prosecutors just spit out everything they have for public consumption before bringing charges against you.
That only happens if your name is Clinton

The funny thing is, you think this helps make a point in your favor
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