OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

blungld
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Can you imagine if Trump has to take the stand some day?

His A Few Good Men moment would go something like this.

"Q: Did you order the Code Red?"

"A: I did not order the Code Red, but if I did it's not illegal and it's a good thing not a bad thing and I didn't have to do it, but I thought to myself that I should do it, so I did, but no I never ordered the Code Red and you can ask anyone they all say I didn't except for the fake news and I got a beautiful letter from President Putin who said that I should get the Noble Peace Prize and he agreed that I should order the Code Red and ordering the Code Red is something that all legal experts agree I am allowed to do, and I am proud to have done it and it has saved literally billions of dollars and thousands of lives that Crooked Hillary and Obama did not care about saving and that the fake news media will not tell you about and I have all the statistics but I trusted my gut on this...but no I didn't. Sit down. Next question."

sycasey
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blungld said:

Do we all just wait until 2020 and hope the damage isn't too great, and that God forbid he doesn't win re-election?
I've pretty much been assuming for the last year and a half that the only way to beat Trump is at the ballot box. The administration's scandals (as brought about by the Mueller investigation, among other things) will hurt his standing with the public and make that easier, but I've never expected the Republican Senate to vote to remove Trump, and that's what it would take to get rid of him sooner.
dajo9
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Nothing negative is going to come out about Trump in the publicly released version of the Mueller report. How do we know? Because IT IS CURRENT DOJ POLICY TO NOT SAY ANYTHING DEROGATORY ABOUT THE PRESIDENT.

These are two current DOJ policies:
1 - The President can't be indicted
2 - The DOJ won't say anything derogatory about somebody who is not being indicted.

This is a simple puzzle. This is a Trump victory. The next fight will be to continue the investigations outside the DOJ and make sure the truth comes out. Current DOJ policy is anathema to a free country.
blungld
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sycasey said:

blungld said:

Do we all just wait until 2020 and hope the damage isn't too great, and that God forbid he doesn't win re-election?
I've pretty much been assuming for the last year and a half that the only way to beat Trump is at the ballot box. The administration's scandals (as brought about by the Mueller investigation, among other things) will hurt his standing with the public and make that easier, but I've never expected the Republican Senate to vote to remove Trump, and that's what it would take to get rid of him sooner.
I hope you are wrong, and fear you are right.

Will the Republican Senators who knowingly obstructed an investigation, misrepresented to the public, chose loyalty to president over oath of office, and may have lied under oath or willingly participated in conspiracy ever be indicted? Why does there seem to be so little criminal accountability for them, just Trump and WH?
Cal Junkie
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blungld said:

sycasey said:

blungld said:

Do we all just wait until 2020 and hope the damage isn't too great, and that God forbid he doesn't win re-election?
I've pretty much been assuming for the last year and a half that the only way to beat Trump is at the ballot box. The administration's scandals (as brought about by the Mueller investigation, among other things) will hurt his standing with the public and make that easier, but I've never expected the Republican Senate to vote to remove Trump, and that's what it would take to get rid of him sooner.
I hope you are wrong, and fear you are right.

Will the Republican Senators who knowingly obstructed an investigation, misrepresented to the public, chose loyalty to president over oath of office, and may have lied under oath or willingly participated in conspiracy ever be indicted? Why does there seem to be so little criminal accountability for them, just Trump and WH?
I've said this all along. The playbook is: House votes to impeach, Senate obstructs and overrules behind McConnell. The end.
sycasey
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blungld said:

sycasey said:

blungld said:

Do we all just wait until 2020 and hope the damage isn't too great, and that God forbid he doesn't win re-election?
I've pretty much been assuming for the last year and a half that the only way to beat Trump is at the ballot box. The administration's scandals (as brought about by the Mueller investigation, among other things) will hurt his standing with the public and make that easier, but I've never expected the Republican Senate to vote to remove Trump, and that's what it would take to get rid of him sooner.
I hope you are wrong, and fear you are right.

Will the Republican Senators who knowingly obstructed an investigation, misrepresented to the public, chose loyalty to president over oath of office, and may have lied under oath or willingly participated in conspiracy ever be indicted? Why does there seem to be so little criminal accountability for them, just Trump and WH?
Again: the only way to beat them is at the ballot box.

This will be harder in the Senate, since red rural states have such disproportionate power there, but again I think the incompetence and criminality of the Trump administration is souring younger voters on the Republican Party (and combined with the Bush years, that's quite a one-two punch for anyone under 40). The shift may happen sooner than pundits expect.
blungld
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Cal Junkie said:

blungld said:

sycasey said:

blungld said:

Do we all just wait until 2020 and hope the damage isn't too great, and that God forbid he doesn't win re-election?
I've pretty much been assuming for the last year and a half that the only way to beat Trump is at the ballot box. The administration's scandals (as brought about by the Mueller investigation, among other things) will hurt his standing with the public and make that easier, but I've never expected the Republican Senate to vote to remove Trump, and that's what it would take to get rid of him sooner.
I hope you are wrong, and fear you are right.

Will the Republican Senators who knowingly obstructed an investigation, misrepresented to the public, chose loyalty to president over oath of office, and may have lied under oath or willingly participated in conspiracy ever be indicted? Why does there seem to be so little criminal accountability for them, just Trump and WH?
I've said this all along. The playbook is: House votes to impeach, Senate obstructs and overrules behind McConnell. The end.
That's like saying Cal will lose Big Game again. The high likelihood of that bitter truth is hard to swallow ahead of time.
blungld
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sycasey said:

This will be harder in the Senate, since red rural states have such disproportionate power there...
It's quite disheartening that one of the greatest societies/nations in Man's history is held back and possibly undone by such a simple tactic: if you install a few old white men who are willing to pretend to be good Christians, play bigot cards, and sell out their votes for bribes/kickbacks in a few tactical rural regions with low-information voters, you can swallow up unwarranted, disproportionate political power. Just camp out in the "heartland" and pass all your corrupt laws for the .01% in the cities who have NOTHING in common with these people.

It's dastardly simple and the poor saps can't see past their crucifix and FOX broadcasts to see how they are used.
Another Bear
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House Oversight Committee says Michael Cohen will testify publicly on February 27.

BearChemist
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Coast Guard officer, self-described white nationalist, planned terror attack to 'kill almost every last person,' feds say

Whether Trump is impeached, indicted, or defeated on ballots, the aftermath is not gonna be pretty.
blungld
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BearChemist said:

Coast Guard officer, self-described white nationalist, planned terror attack to 'kill almost every last person,' feds say

Whether Trump is impeached, indicted, or defeated on ballots, the aftermath is not gonna be pretty.
It's really strange how peaceful coexistence escapes so many. The very people crying for Freedom in this pathological way are the ones who feel like their life is somehow ruined or under attack if a trans person is in a bathroom, or gay person gets married, or they encounter a minority in their daily life, or if that person over there doesn't worship the same God.

The threat of the other is so palpable to them. And it would seem that they are easily moved to violence with just the suggestion that an other is getting something they are not, or might someday get what they are not, or worse, would win a culture war where freedom is actually practiced in a future that requires them to adapt or their small-mindedness becomes obsolete.
Another Bear
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Report: New York prepared to prosecute Manafort in case of Trump pardon
Quote:

New York County District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. is prepared to file tax charges against Paul Manafort in the event that he is pardoned by President Trump for his conviction in the Mueller investigation, Bloomberg reports, citing two sources familiar with the matter.

Why it matters: Trump has not ruled out a presidential pardon for his former campaign chairman, who is set to be sentenced and could face at least 19 years in prison in Virginia on March 8 and D.C. on March 13. Vance has reportedly been investigating Manafort since 2017, months after he was charged for tax and financial fraud by the special counsel. Bloomberg notes, however, that laws that prevent defendants from being charged twice for the same crime could make the case difficult to prosecute.


From Axios.
blungld
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There is not a single non-criminal justification for pardoning Manafort.

I know Trump seems to not care at all and is desperate, but he has said he barely knows the guy (completely 100% false)...but likes him for keeping his mouth shut.

There is not a single person in the public saying, "Man, that Manafort needs to be pardoned for all those crimes he committed." There is no suggestion by anyone that he is innocent or that his crimes are meaningless.

The only persons who would benefit or want the pardon are Manafort and the person his silence would protect.

Trump should be indicted for obstruction and conspiracy the minute he does it, if he does in fact do it.

Any citizen or politician who would allow that pardon to happen is a traitor. Just a straight traitor. Period.
bearister
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Even Nixon wasn't like him': Trump's bid to upend Russia inquiry unprecedented, experts say

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/22/trumps-steps-to-upend-russia-inquiry-are-unprecedented-even-nixon-wasnt-like-him?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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