OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

Another Bear
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This seems significant:

Former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen likely to cooperate as his attorneys leave case, sources say

Quote:

As attorneys for Michael Cohen rush to meet Judge Kimba Wood's Friday deadline to complete a privilege review of over 3.7 million documents seized in the April 9 raids of Cohen's New York properties and law office, a source representing this matter has disclosed to ABC News that the law firm handling the case for Cohen is not expected to represent him going forward.

Quote:

Cohen, now with no legal representation, is likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors in New York, sources said. This development, which is believed to be imminent, will likely hit the White House, family members, staffers and counsels hard.


blungld
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Watching FOX news and its viewers praise Trump's North Korea "talks" and the willingness to just eat up the precise spin, positioning, disinformation, or posturing, and how their hatred of the left has led them to completely abandon reason (unapologetically so), is making me start to conclude that Trump has in fact won.

That no matter what Mueller reveals (and he has already revealed enough to have impeached any president before Trump), that the right will look the other way or say that these are made up or not really evidence of anything. That they have gone full tribal and that anything this man does as long as it looks like the left doesn't like it, is good. That there are no abstract principles or objective truth, there is only loyalty now--and that this doesn't frighten them and they seem incapable of remembering that is supposed to be the opposite of what makes America great.

This is the same ferocity we see in any discussion that challenges any belief. Facts stop mattering. Logic breaks down. It is just about entrenching one's beliefs against any perceived attack. The belief must persist beyond all reason, evidence, or inclusion of other belief or fact. Trump has become a belief.

America has been history's good guy, and it shocks me that well-placed politicians with the support of media propaganda, could so change the character of this country and have so many abandon our ideals (and not even notice we had done so) such that we may be the world's next bad guy.

For two years I deceived myself, that there was just a small percentage of Americans who got caught up in a fervor, and given a little time would come around to seeing the corruption and would ultimately stand up as Americans. It's painful to realize that we are nothing special. That we are just as susceptible to mob mentality, greed, hate, manipulation, and authoritarians. It's no longer hyperbole and paranoia to worry that we are headed to oligarchy, dictatorship, and fascism. It's actually happening before us right now while those pointing it out are being attacked and dismissed. We have ALL lost to Trump, it's just that not everyone realizes it yet. What has been revealed to me about America, and people in general, breaks my heart even if that makes me a snowflake.
Another Bear
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Take the Russkies out of the equations and things are far different. Those motherfuucker, with help from Trump, Kushher, Ivanka, Bannon, Cohen, Rohrabacher, some random Nazis and the GOP, are still at it.

Mueller warns that election, politics meddling by foreigners is still happening

Quote:

  • Special counsel Robert Mueller said Tuesday that election meddling operations are still occurring from "uncharged individuals and entities."
  • They are still engaging in operations similar to those charged in a case involving 13 Russian nationals accused of illegally interfering in the 2016 presidential election.
  • Mueller made the claim in a court filing that asked a judge to grant the special counsel's request to protect evidence in that case


  • I won't call it a "win" because that would mean a fair contest. The Trump org has stolen democracy. I'm not throwing in the towel.
    dajo9
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    The 2018 election is the most important election in our lives so far.

    So, you have to ask yourself, what are you doing to drive a positive outcome in this election?
    B.A. Bearacus
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    blungld
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    dajo9 said:

    The 2018 election is the most important election in our lives so far.

    So, you have to ask yourself, what are you doing to drive a positive outcome in this election?
    You're right. If the Russian meddling results in more bought politicians, then the balance may be so tipped that the uncorrupt are forced out entirely. Republicans especially, we need you to take a hit for the greater good and vote Democrat (hold your nose if need be). It's not about party or policy on this one, this vote is truly to save our democracy.
    Another Bear
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    I'm afraid much of the GOP has taken the "party over country" stand, and "my portfolio is doing just fine".
    AunBear89
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    Another Bear said:

    I'm afraid much of the GOP has taken the "party over country" stand, and "my portfolio is doing just fine".
    Don't forget the "I love my extra $12.34 per paycheck thanks to the YUGE tax cut"
    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
    mikecohen
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    Another Bear said:

    I'm afraid much of the GOP has taken the "party over country" stand, and "my portfolio is doing just fine".
    I have seen reporting to the effect that the percentage rise of Trump favorables within the GOP is matched by the numerical decline of the GOP overall. Does anyone have the actual numbers on this?
    golden sloth
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    dajo9 said:

    The 2018 election is the most important election in our lives so far.

    So, you have to ask yourself, what are you doing to drive a positive outcome in this election?
    Step One: Register to Vote. https://vote.gov/

    Step Two: Get friends and family to Register to Vote

    Step Three: Don't shy away from awkward conversations with family and friends over politics

    Remember even in California there are plenty of House seats the dems are trying to flip. See here: http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-pol-ca-california-congressional-race-rankings/

    I voted in my first primary last week. I had my younger brother register in May. I am camping with my buddy and his family, I am going to try and convince his wife to convince her Fresno based family to register and vote.

    When I meet up with my parents in July (they are conservative) I am going to bring up the ills of Trump. It is a long shot, but I'm preparing to have that awkward conversation.

    The convincing is the hard part, but the low-hanging fruit is simply registering people to vote. Remember more people disapprove of Trump than support him, there is just a voter gap between the supporters and dissenters, closing that gap is easier than convincing Trump supporters of the other way.
    sycasey
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    golden sloth said:


    The convincing is the hard part, but the low-hanging fruit is simply registering people to vote. Remember more people disapprove of Trump than support him, there is just a voter gap between the supporters and dissenters, closing that gap is easier than convincing Trump supporters of the other way.
    This. I think by far the biggest impact will be had by increasing turnout of people who want to vote against Trump. IMO, that's been the biggest factor in the swings we've seen in special elections during Trump's term (especially in red and swing states).

    It's way harder to convince someone who's already thrown in with Republicans and/or Trump. Maybe the best you can do is convince them to stay home next time.
    Another Bear
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    You guys really want to help? Get on some phone banks calling districts that could flip. Donate to races that you want to see flipped (Dana Rohrabacher, I have a check for your opponent...and my money is NOT Russkie rubles). In 2016 there were buses full of Californians that headed to Nevada to canvas. There's plenty to do.
    sycasey
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    For donations, Swing Left has handy links for the vulnerable CA Republican districts.

    https://swingleft.org/p/crooked-los-angeles

    One not included above (because he's in NorCal) but also certainly beatable is Jeff Denham.

    https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/swing-CA-10-left
    Another Bear
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    They're taking Apple Pay, so I'm dropping the "loose" change gathered to some of those guys.
    Anarchistbear
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    Trump's approval rating has gone up 20% among Republicans since 2016- that's why he does what he does. Last night he took down a sitting congressman in SC with a tweet. Republicans are not going to save anyone and if the Democrats cater to them they are doomed
    bearister
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    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/13/how-to-report-trump-media-manipulation-language?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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    Another Bear
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    The media is reporting that Cohen changing lawyers now, saying he's out of $$$ is a smoke signal to Trump to pardon him. MEANWHILE...


    Trump's campaign to discredit Michael Cohen is already underway

    Oddly, the Trump org previously dropped $200k+ on Cohen's legal bills but now have stonewalled him and refuse to pay more. Avenatti mentioned this is just STUPID. Paying the bill would ensure loyalty. But the Trump org is too cheap. Seriously? The Trump org is cheaping out on a guy who can sink the whole ship?

    Once again...you can't make this stuff up.
    blungld
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    Another Bear said:

    The media is reporting that Cohen changing lawyers now, saying he's out of $$$ is a smoke signal to Trump to pardon him. MEANWHILE...


    Trump's campaign to discredit Michael Cohen is already underway

    Oddly, the Trump org previously dropped $200k+ on Cohen's legal bills but now have stonewalled him and refuse to pay more. Avenatti mentioned this is just STUPID. Paying the bill would ensure loyalty. But the Trump org is too cheap. Seriously? The Trump org is cheaping out on a guy who can sink the whole ship?

    Once again...you can't make this stuff up.

    I know it's legal, but this shouldn't be. How can a subject of an investigation pay the bills of a key witness. Seems like obstruction and witness tampering to me. Too many loop holes in the law. Anyone with common sense knows that's a crooked act.
    Another Bear
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    As I understand it, since Cohen worked for the Trump Org, paying his legal bill is legal and standard, despite the seemingly conflict of interest and complete weirdness. An attorney might be able say more but that's my understanding from watching Avenatti on TV last night, where it was mentioned (Cohen worked for Trump).

    Any way, this is a case of Trump shooting himself in the FACE and foot with stupidity and cheapness. If you're that stupid, that cheap and that corrupt...you deserve what's going to happen.
    B.A. Bearacus
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    Breaking News (MSNBC): Judge revokes bail; Manafort going to jail immediately.

    BearNIt
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    B.A. Bearacus said:

    Breaking News (MSNBC): Judge revokes bail; Manaford going to jail immediately.


    Who is Manafort more scared of Mueller or Putin? Does Manafort's jailing have any influence on Michael Cohen willingness to win the Bob Mueller Sweepstakes before somebody else does?

    Manafort may still try to fight the charges if he is afraid of Putin and his boys.
    Another Bear
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    Manafort is going to get a mani pedi in the joint and it won't be much fun.

    BTW, anyone know what jail or penitentiary Manafort will be going to? Just wondering given he's led a life of luxury and it'll be interesting to see his new dig, perhaps for the next 50 years.

    bearister
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    Another Bear said:

    Manafort is going to get a mani pedi in the joint and it won't be much fun.

    BTW, anyone know what jail or penitentiary Manafort will be going to? Just wondering given he's led a life of luxury and it'll be interesting to see his new dig, perhaps for the next 50 years.



    As I have said before, with at least 40% of the nation buying the Fox News Alternate Reality, how hard is it going to be to get one juror on your side if you are a tRump criminal associate on trial?
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    Another Bear
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    You don't think Bob Mueller has Trump and company cornered and out of options? My guess is you're right, some wing nut Trump cultist will get on the jury...but they'll expose themselves and be DQ'ed.
    bearister
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    I don't recall those willing to engage in jury nullification on the OJ Simpson jury revealing themselves during voir dire. The tRump cultists will view it as their civic duty and divine mission to get on the jury in order to preserve the Republic from the Deep State. Even they are smart enough to say they can keep an open mind and follow the law set forth in the jury instructions. This is an us against them Culture War as framed by Fox News.
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    Another Bear
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    First it has to go to a jury trial, which I doubt. If it ever goes to a jury, I'm going to put my trust in Mueller and his crack staff of top end lawyers to sniff out the potential idiots on the jury. I think they have enough experience to vet the idiots, who usually self-expose themselves.

    It was a long time ago but I recall a juror or alt were dumped in OJ's trail...but that was a long time ago.
    Another Bear
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    This is how Putin buys influence in the West

    Short answer: GREED

    It's how all the GOPers like Rohrabacher got hooked. It's how they bought Trump. It's how Manafort get involved.

    GREED

    bearister
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    Another Bear said:

    First it has to go to a jury trial, which I doubt. If it ever goes to a jury, I'm going to put my trust in Mueller and his crack staff of top end lawyers to sniff out the potential idiots on the jury. I think they have enough experience to vet the idiots, who usually self-expose themselves.

    It was a long time ago but I recall a juror or alt were dumped in OJ's trail...but that was a long time ago.


    The Republicans, of Party over Country fame, will never impeach tRump so he can't face criminal charges until he leaves office (a long shot).

    With regard to the OJ jury, the 12 that got impaneled voted unanimously to acquit a double murderer.
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    concordtom
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    dajo9 said:

    The 2018 election is the most important election in our lives so far.

    So, you have to ask yourself, what are you doing to drive a positive outcome in this election?
    I'd like to go on some pink *****hat marches.
    For real! I bought the yarn now need to learn how to knit.
    B.A. Bearacus
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    Sounds like Manafort landed in a relatively cozy spot.

    Kyle Griffin: "Paul Manafort has been locked up in a Virginia jail tonight.

    An inmate database shows that Manafort was booked into the Northern Neck Regional Jail in Warsaw, Virginia, at 8:22 PM.

    Jail records listed his housing unit as "VIP-1."
    Another Bear
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    Manafort To Trump: "They Have Miniature Golf Here, You're Going To Like It"
    Quote:

    As president's former campaign manager spends first day in jail, he texts boss to say "be sure to pack an extra pair of butt plugs'

    Another Bear
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    Wow, this guy use to drop a cool million on suits...at one time.
    bearister
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    Paulie Manafort is going to be making prison pasta sauce like Paulie Cicero in Goodfellas.



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    Bobodeluxe
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    That movie is the most overrated piece of crap in the history of film, give or take.
    sycasey
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    There is no such thing as an "overrated" movie. Only movies you don't like that most everyone else does like.
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