OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

Unit2Sucks
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Trump is starting to act like Cal fans circa 2004. We almost beat USC - that counts for something right? I mean no one expected us to win so the fact that it was close is an accomplishment worth celebrating. If Trump isn't impeached before he begins his reelection campaign, I expect half his "accomplishments" to be legislation that he almost was able to pass.

As for Trump the dealmaker working with Schumer or other democrats, this assumes that his style of dealmaking would work in Washington. Has anything we've seen from him or this administration reasonably led us to believe that would be the case?
dajo9
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sycasey;842854435 said:

Now McConnell says he wants to proceed with straight repeal (no replacement).

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/trumpcare-as-we-know-it-is-dead.html

Not sure if serious.


Obamacare is dead

Long live Obamacare!
dajo9
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Strykur;842854507 said:

That is what I mentioned awhile back on here (that Trump is not a right-wing ideologue per se and could pivot to the Democrats should it be politically expedient) and was laughed at, maybe by next year when the Russia "scandal" ends with a whimper and the Democrats are left exposed, then this could be done. Trump as party leader could also tell the GOP that McConnell and Ryan have to be replaced in their respective positions, if he really wanted to stay the course and retain the GOP vote.


I'll stop laughing when the pivot happens, thanks
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks;842854519 said:

Trump is starting to act like Cal fans circa 2004. We almost beat USC - that counts for something right? I mean no one expected us to win so the fact that it was close is an accomplishment worth celebrating. If Trump isn't impeached before he begins his reelection campaign, I expect half his "accomplishments" to be legislation that he almost was able to pass.


But Cal actually won a lot of games in 2004. This is more like Sonny defenders in 2013: We beat Portland State! Almost beat Arizona! Northwestern game was kind of close! Never mind the rest of the dumpster fires.
BearDevil
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sycasey;842854512[url said:

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I mean, never mind that there are actually 100 Senators. He's still within the framework that he only needs Republican votes.


It's stunning how limited Trump's quantitative and policy knowledge is. He bragged about his 304 Electoral College landslide until and a reporter calmly handed him his ass. Had a Rose Garden celebration when the House (240 'Pubs) bill narrowly passed 217-213.
BearNIt
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There were more people at this meeting that Trumpito Jr. said there was full disclosure on? I just can't believe that I would forget all the Russians at a meeting I scheduled.

Drip, drip, drip, drip.

Winter is coming for the Trumps!

Don't forget, It's "Made In America" week.
bearister
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http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342589-ian-bremmer-trump-and-putin-held-second-informal-meeting-during-g-20?amp
sycasey
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BearNIt;842854540 said:

Don't forget, It's "Made In America" week.


Strange choice to celebrate that old Whoopi Goldberg movie.

bearister
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They built a used car lot set for that movie by the courthouse on Fallon Street in Oakland. It garnered a robust 4.9 fan rating on IMDb which pretty much makes it must see.
GATC
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bearister;842854556 said:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342589-ian-bremmer-trump-and-putin-held-second-informal-meeting-during-g-20?amp


Wow, this has more intrigue than a John Le Carre novel.
bearister
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GATC;842854565 said:

Wow, this has more intrigue than a John Le Carre novel.


With the one wrinkle being that in the real life version all the characters are attendees at a Village Idiot's Convention.
NYCGOBEARS
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bearister;842854556 said:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342589-ian-bremmer-trump-and-putin-held-second-informal-meeting-during-g-20?amp


Donny Jr had a meeting about Russian orphans. This one between Big Donny and Puty was about Russian brides. Melania's shelf life is almost up.
oski003
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sycasey;842854534 said:

But Cal actually won a lot of games in 2004. This is more like Sonny defenders in 2013: We beat Portland State! Almost beat Arizona! Northwestern game was kind of close! Never mind the rest of the dumpster fires.


Is Trump beating the Democratic Candidate like Cal beating Portland State? Does this hold for the governorships and Congress too?
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey;842854534 said:

But Cal actually won a lot of games in 2004. This is more like Sonny defenders in 2013: We beat Portland State! Almost beat Arizona! Northwestern game was kind of close! Never mind the rest of the dumpster fires.


You are right and it was unfair to Cal football to compare 2004 to Trump's unpresidency. But setting all that aside I think you will hear Trump patting himself on the back for (what he will claim) was almost getting a healthcare bill passed. In reality I don't think he was ever that close to getting something through and, although the irony isn't lost on 60%+ of the country or whatever that opposes Trump, he is doing his country a great service in his inability to pass any meaningful legislation.
sycasey
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oski003;842854574 said:

Is Trump beating the Democratic Candidate like Cal beating Portland State? Does this hold for the governorships and Congress too?


All of this is pretty much about what Trump has been able to accomplish SINCE getting elected. So in your analogy, Trump beating Hillary would be like Sonny constantly talking about those WAC teams he beat at La Tech.
BearNIt
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More Russians have been met with? I was gone for 4 hours and there are more freakin Russians who were at the meeting. A money launderer is the newest contestant? Why is a money launderer in a meeting with Trumpito Jr.,Kushner, and Manafort? Enough of this crap! Send Kushner, Trump Jr., Manafort, Flynn, and anybody else who lies to congress, the FBI, or the special prosecutor to Big Boy Prison. Republicans, save yourselves abandon ship it's every man for himself. There is no defense for this blatant deception.

Drip, drip, drip, drip.
bearister
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Well, on the one hand Rupert Murdoch has Sean Hannity and Fox and Friends but on the other he has the WSJ editorial board:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/finance/news/realities-destroy-mr-trump-wall-155209749.html
BearChemist
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When one hour long dinner is described by White House as "briefly" and foreign leaders have to be the anonymous sources.
1979bear
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Not a great comparison. Trump shouldn't be mentioned here. The 2004 SC game is the second best game I have seen in my life. The 1982 Big Game will always be the best game I was present for. But the 2004 SC game for me is number 2. The Cal team played the most dominant team in decades straight up. Some jealous whiners on this board will talk about forfeits and lost Heisman blah blah blah. Did SC beat Oklahoma by 4-5 touchdowns in the NC? Yep. They beat our Bears by only 4 points and four failed plays from inside the 10, with an injured Chase Lyman in the second half. No game, at least to me, comes close since. Our team never came close to the top 10 at the end of the season since.
bearister
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Trump talks to the failing NY Times (WTF?). Takes a dump on "You had me at Beauregard" and warns Mueller.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-sessions-russia.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
NYCGOBEARS
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bearister;842854767 said:

Trump talks to the failing NY Times (WTF?). Takes a dump on "You had me at Beauregard" and warns Mueller.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-sessions-russia.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

He cannot keep his mouth shut to save himself. He literally has diarrhea of the mouth and has sh!t for brains. He's now publicly stating that his hiring of Sessions was a mistake because Sessions recused himself. Oh Lawd....
BearNIt
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bearister;842854767 said:

Trump talks to the failing NY Times (WTF?). Takes a dump on "You had me at Beauregard" and warns Mueller.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-sessions-russia.html?referer=https://www.google.com/


He never would have appointed Sessions and essentially blames AG Sessions for the entire Russian problem that he has, forgetting the role that his tweeting played in getting the investigative ball rolling and ultimately the appointment of Robert Mueller as the Special Prosecutor. He also warns Mueller not to look into family finances beyond Russia and draws a red line at this point. How do you investigate Russian influence over Trump without investigating the finances of the Trumps. IMO he will attempt to fire Mueller and Deputy AG Rosenstein will resign rather than fire Mueller. We will then have a constitutional crisis and Republicans will have then fate of this country laid at their feet.

His narcissism knows no bounds.
bearister
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Wow! This isn't going to have a happy ending. No wonder Trump threatened Mueller in the failing NY Times interview.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/business/big-german-bank-key-to-trumps-finances-faces-new-scrutiny.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
sp4149
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Hard to believe the Feds aren't connecting the dots, drawing quite a map...

bearister;842854807 said:

Wow! This isn't going to have a happy ending. No wonder Trump threatened Mueller in the failing NY Times interview.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/business/big-german-bank-key-to-trumps-finances-faces-new-scrutiny.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
BearDevil
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NYCGOBEARS;842854770 said:

He cannot keep his mouth shut to save himself. He literally has diarrhea of the mouth and has sh!t for brains. He's now publicly stating that his hiring of Sessions was a mistake because Sessions recused himself. Oh Lawd....


It's painfully obvious he's been batshit crazy for several years. How can his attorneys, staff, and family allow him to babble to the NYT?

Allegedly Manafort owed the Russians $17M. What's Trump's tab? Jared's? Flynn's?
blungld
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For all the moral degeneration accusation that Conservatives like to cast at Liberals, why is the proponderance of hypocrisy, cheaters, assholes, bigots, rascists, closeted gays, etc belong to non-Liberal parties? There are some unsavory Dems, but for the most part they are people with more empathy and more well meaning intentions.
NYCGOBEARS
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blungld;842854853 said:

For all the moral degeneration accusation that Conservatives like to cast at Liberals, why is the proponderance of hypocrisy, cheaters, assholes, bigots, rascists, closeted gays, etc belong to non-Liberal parties? There are some unsavory Dems, but for the most part they are people with more empathy and more well meaning intentions.

It's simple - A warped sense of morality that will justify any means necessary to remain in control longer and horde resources and power. White people are scared. A minority majority is coming quickly.
oski003
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wow, tell us how you really feel. How about this... A corporation owns 1,000 stores that each profit $30,000. That's 30,000,000 in profit that the owners make and the people running it are paid well, etc... A business owner owns and runs three stores that make $30,000 each. Liberals make laws that severely impact both groups so that their profit gets cut in half with increases taxes, fees, minimum wage increases, health care costs, and legislation that increases vulnerability to lawsuits (in defense of the common worker), etc... Store owner works 80 hours a week making $45,000 grand a year in profit. Liberal in ivory tower thinks, "Well, a smarter store owner would profit more." Liberals only see big evil corporations. On top on that, there is too much waste in government. See Bureaucratic costs at U.C. edited to add that Republicans do give their money to worthy causes. They just don't like to give a large portion of it to the government.
NYCGOBEARS
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oski003;842854857 said:

wow, tell us how you really feel. How about this... A corporation owns 1,000 stores that each profit $30,000. That's 30,000,000 in profit that the owners make and the people running it are paid well, etc... A business owner owns and runs three stores that make $30,000 each. Liberals make laws that severely impact both groups so that their profit gets cut in half with increases taxes, fees, minimum wage increases, health care costs, and legislation that increases vulnerability to lawsuits (in defense of the common worker), etc... Store owner works 80 hours a week making $45,000 grand a year in profit. Liberal in ivory tower thinks, "Well, a smarter store owner would profit more." Liberals only see big evil corporations. On top on that, there is too much waste in government. See Bureaucratic costs at U.C. edited to add that Republicans do give their money to worthy causes. They just don't like to give a large portion of it to the government.

That's a whole lot of straw men in one paragraph. You also prove my point about the right using fear and propaganda to achieve their objective of hoarding resources and power. You espoused the party line just now in a textbook fashion.

The states I've lived in the longest, NY and California are amongst the most progressive and highly taxed in the nation. How have those policies stifled innovation and their economies?

Explain to me where voter suppression, denial of civil rights and economic equality, a complete lack of concern for available affordable healthcare, loss of consumer protections, corporate deregulation, poor environmental policies, and being beholden to the Koch brothers, the Heritage Foundation, and the NRA, as well as other powerful and morally corrupt entities makes your position superior?
oski003
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NYCGOBEARS;842854869 said:

That's a whole lot of straw men in one paragraph. You also prove my point about the right using fear and propaganda to achieve their objective of hoarding resources and power. You espouses the party line just now in a textbook fashion.

Explain to me where voter suppression, denial of civil rights and economic equality, a complete lack of concern for available affordable healthcare, loss of consumer protections, corporate deregulation, poor environmental policies, and being beholden to the Koch brothers, the Heritage Foundation, and the NRA, as well as other powerful and morally corrupt entities makes your position superior?


Neither party or outlook is superior. I will add retroactively , most in front of Liberals... so that I can be as balanced as you and blungld. So most liberals... after all, blungld never called all conservatives hypocrites, liars, and assholes.
NYCGOBEARS
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oski003;842854871 said:

after all, blungld never called all conservatives hypocrites, liars, and assholes.

I didn't either. Don't put words in my mouth. Many republicans are as mortified as I am.

The current leadership and machinery of the right certainly are, as are many others. Most others are simply scared lemmings who are terrified of change. The GOP has made a Faustian bargain and shall find paying up to be a b!tch.
BearChemist
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How many DT voters on this board still don't believe DT Jr. met with Russian lawyer? I would not call them hypocrites, liars, or assholes. Just plain sduuubid.
NYCGOBEARS
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BearChemist;842854882 said:


I would not call them hypocrites, liars, or assholes. Just plain sduuubid.

All of the above is also an option.
NYCGOBEARS
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NYCGOBEARS;842854854 said:

It's simple - A warped sense of morality that will justify any means necessary to remain in control longer and horde resources and power. White people are scared. A minority majority is coming quickly.

From a bearister post in the Healthcare Thread:

"The embarrassing faltering of the Republicans' plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act might be both history lesson and harbinger. Republicans in Congress weren't prepared with a workable plan, and Trump never had any plan. He campaigned on applause-line policies: Anything that roused a response from his rabid adherents, he repeated and amplified. He never gave details because the details didn't exist, and he wouldn't have been able to understand and articulate them if they did.

Trump was simply a megaphone for the primal screams of Barack Obama-Hillary Clinton haters flipping out over the cultural anxiety accompanying the ascension of women and minorities."
- Charles Blow, NY Times
ducky23
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oski003;842854857 said:

wow, tell us how you really feel. How about this... A corporation owns 1,000 stores that each profit $30,000. That's 30,000,000 in profit that the owners make and the people running it are paid well, etc... A business owner owns and runs three stores that make $30,000 each. Liberals make laws that severely impact both groups so that their profit gets cut in half with increases taxes, fees, minimum wage increases, health care costs, and legislation that increases vulnerability to lawsuits (in defense of the common worker), etc... Store owner works 80 hours a week making $45,000 grand a year in profit. Liberal in ivory tower thinks, "Well, a smarter store owner would profit more." Liberals only see big evil corporations. On top on that, there is too much waste in government. See Bureaucratic costs at U.C. edited to add that Republicans do give their money to worthy causes. They just don't like to give a large portion of it to the government.


I disagree with traditional conservative values (individualism, smaller government, less regulation, etc), but at least its a reasonable stance to have. Its something that two people could reasonably disagree about. Traditional conservatism, while I disagree with it, I don't absolutely abhor it. Its not inherently immoral.

But that is not what the Republican Party stands for anymore. Its not what Trump stands for. And its not what his base stands for.

If Trump were just a traditional conservative, I'd be more or less fine with it, and the country would probably be more or less fine with it. If Trump were a traditional conservative, he'd probably receive a lot less pushback from pissed off voters (and pissed off democrats on the hill), and he'd be able to pass all the legislation that he wanted. I think most traditional conservatives would agree that, ideally, they would have a different type of conservative in the oval office. right?

But its unclear whether a traditional conservative can now get elected president in this day and age. So you needed to add some populist rhetoric, create some fear and nationalism, protectionist, and jingoism etc to get the Trump base out to vote. So the GOP essentially made a deal with the devil so they can control the Executive Branch.

What I don't get from traditional conservative is how they just seem ok with this new paradigm. I mean, to get some of the things you want (like tax reform, etc) you're willing to sell off democracy? I mean, I guess, at least initially, I could see why traditional conservatives would vote for Trump. But why are they still defending Trump now? At what point do you say, enough is enough? At what point is there a line crossed that your own morality urges you to push back?

And forget about morals. How about your own self interest? At what point does it become in your parties best interest to push back on Trump? What I don't get is why you would sacrifice the long term health of the Republican party for short term goals. Why label yourself the anti-immigrant, anti LGBT, anti minority party? Especially when this countries' demographics will look strikingly different 20 years from now. Do traditional conservatives really believe that the Republican Party is going to have long term health after Trump?
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