OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

192,350 Views | 3122 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by BearForce2
Another Bear
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Calcupcakes said:

Another Bear said:



Why is it only on the Dems to fix this?

Because Trump's base of 35% or so won't change their minds no matter what, so if the Dems just stopped the infighting and turned out to vote, he would be gone in 2020.

Because at the end of the day, it's still a beauty contest to most voters, and it will be Trump vs. _____. If the Dems nominated someone crazier and less palatable then Trump, then we may have a repeat of 2016. People might choose to stay home again. There might not be more things American despise than a Commie, for instance.

Because for many "independents" the "Anyone but Trump" chant might not be enough. It might depend on who that "anyone" is, and the Dems control who that "anyone" is.
I disagree because this isn't a party issue, this is a country issue. The party over country crap is a big part of the problem and you're just reinforcing it. To lay responsibility on the Dems to fix this is playing the same game and frankly it's an insane position to take.

Why? Because the GOP nominated and voted for Trump, or looked the other way.

Frankly this is as much or more a GOP problem. They nominated him. Mostly however the party over country position is unpatriotic in the particular instance because apparently you know he's bad for the country...yet you're leaving the other party to fix it? I call bullsh*t.
Anarchistbear
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The problem at this point is that the heart of the Mueller investigation was " collusion." There is no smoking Russian gun. That's a big deal. Any further investigations are perpetuating the witch hunt narrative but with a more nuanced "obstruction" - see blowjobs. The media perpetuated a hoax. Why should anyone care about this anymore?
Unit2Sucks
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I think you stay away from impeachment entirely. The key to Trump is to get him riled up and continue to pound him on his many weaknesses by specifically targeting his vanity and counter-puncher mentality.

Here's a great starting point: according to the Mueller report Trump made many attempts to impede the investigation that "were mostly unsuccessful but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the president declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests".

The dem leadership should razz Trump for this night and day. I mean the guy did his best to obstruct justice but couldn't even convince his merry band of kleptocrats to help him out. Do it enough and it will eat away at him. I wouldn't be surprised if he implodes as a result. There is so much in the report that can be used as fodder to attack Trump publicly. That's a much better blueprint for 2020 than using congress' hard power.
Calcupcakes
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Another Bear said:



I disagree because this isn't a party issue, this is a country issue. The party over country crap is a big part of the problem and you're just reinforcing it. To lay responsibility on the Dems to fix this is playing the same game and frankly it's an insane position to take.

Why? Because the GOP nominated and voted for Trump, or looked the other way.

Frankly this is as much or more a GOP problem. They nominated him. Mostly however the party over country position is unpatriotic in the particular instance because apparently you know he's bad for the country...yet you're leaving the other party to fix it? I call bullsh*t.


I don't believe you and I disagree. I agree that it should be country over party all the time. Tthat's why I'm sick of the current partisan politics and have refused to join any particular party 15 years ago.

I'm not telling you what I believe; I'm just relaying my observation. I wish it were otherwise.

That's why I always tell my kids to do their best and hope -- but don't expect -- that other people will follow. We can only control what we do. So if the Dems played it right, then it wouldn't matter what the Trump base or other Republicans do, they would still be able to take back the WH. Don't count on the other side to be convinced by equally partisan "You should do the right thing by rejecting your guy and picking our guy/gal/ze" arguments.

If you hope that others would do what you believe is right, then be prepared to be disappointed.
Calcupcakes
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Unit2Sucks said:

I think you stay away from impeachment entirely. The key to Trump is to get him riled up and continue to pound him on his many weaknesses by specifically targeting his vanity and counter-puncher mentality.

... I mean the guy did his best to obstruct justice but couldn't even convince his merry band of kleptocrats to help him out. Do it enough and it will eat away at him. I wouldn't be surprised if he implodes as a result. There is so much in the report that can be used as fodder to attack Trump publicly. That's a much better blueprint for 2020 than using congress' hard power.

Let him self-destruct. That said, he really did try, but some in his circles held him back, even if through their own incompetence.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

I think you stay away from impeachment entirely. The key to Trump is to get him riled up and continue to pound him on his many weaknesses by specifically targeting his vanity and counter-puncher mentality.

Here's a great starting point: according to the Mueller report Trump made many attempts to impede the investigation that "were mostly unsuccessful but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the president declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests".

The dem leadership should razz Trump for this night and day. I mean the guy did his best to obstruct justice but couldn't even convince his merry band of kleptocrats to help him out. Do it enough and it will eat away at him. I wouldn't be surprised if he implodes as a result. There is so much in the report that can be used as fodder to attack Trump publicly. That's a much better blueprint for 2020 than using congress' hard power.


This is not a bad strategy.
Anarchistbear
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GBear4Life
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Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.
offshorebear
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GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.


This is wildly out of touch with reality. Not sure how you got to your current headspace, but you should just scrap everything that got you so off track and start fresh. I'm dead serious.
NYCGOBEARS
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Dems should send a bucket of KFC and a dozen Quarter Pounders to Trump every day until he pops a seal.
GBear4Life
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Leftists are in full meltdown mode. They've been using Russia since 11/8/16 to cope with their delirium. I don't have a dog in this fight, but to quote Trump, it's "SAD!".
Eastern Oregon Bear
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GBear4Life said:

I don't have a dog in this fight
I felt this statement needed it's full moment of glory to shine on it's own merits.
B.A. Bearacus
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Another Bear
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GBear4Life
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

GBear4Life said:

I don't have a dog in this fight
I felt this statement needed it's full moment of glory to shine on it's own merits.
It's true LOL. I don't own pom poms. If I did, I sure wouldn't use them for political parties and its members.
golden sloth
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After thinking about the redacted findings, it is kind of amazing that the whole Russia thing is the best thing that could have happened to Trump. As evidence by the findings, no one respects Trump, and he clearly has little to no control over this administration.

Donald Trump thought he had conspired with Russia hence the 'we're ****ed' comment. Trump tried to obstruct justice, but no one listened to him. He entered the Presidency with both the House and the Senate, and was only able to cut taxes in an initiative that was and is wildly unpopular and largely achieved through the efforts of the House and Senate, not through his administration.

His other major policy initiative, immigration, has been an on-going struggle with little to nothing having been accomplished. Multiple times Trump has had to retreat and accept small failures due to the overwhelming public outrage (child separations, border wall funding), and when he has succeeded the policies took multiple attempts and were again predominantly unpopular (Muslim ban).

His third major policy initiative, the repeal of Obamacare failed and was so unpopular it cost him the House in the 2018 elections. The only other achievement (the Supreme Court) should be attributed more to Mitch McConnell than Donny Boy. If you put it all together, Trump has been incredibly ineffective, and the few times he was successful, his achievements were unpopular.

Fortunately for Trump, he has the Russia distraction. With the media focusing so much attention on Russia, it provided an excellent distraction from the reality and incompetence of his administration. The Russia scandal also successfully divided the American populous into the Pro-Trump camp and the Anti-Trump camp where facts no longer matter and common ground is no longer viable. If it were not for the Russia scandal dividing America and consuming the media sphere Donald Trump would be judged on his accomplishments, a judgment that would not end well for him.
dajo9
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Calcupcakes said:



It shouldn't be that tough, right? But somehow I'm sure the Dems will *****it up, in some way, some form, some fashion.


Will the Dems *****it up more or less than the Republicans?
An old white dude
Another Bear
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Nice to know there's like 4 or 5 conservatives with a pair of balls...and one is a woman. Very telling, sad commentary on the conservative movement. When you consider all those conservatives and RWNJs who continue say nothing, it would seem they had their balls shoved down their throats at a pee party.









Yogi Bear
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Calcupcakes said:


If the Dems nominated someone crazier and less palatable then Trump
There's no such thing. Name me any Democratic candidate for president and try and convince me he or she would be worse.
dajo9
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GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.


Dropping the email hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for Trumpers
An old white dude
Yogi Bear
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GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes
You must be referring to all the investigations of Democratic leaders that they tried to obstruct.

My memory is a little faulty, so if you could summarize those for me, that'd be great.
Yogi Bear
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GBear4Life said:

I don't have a dog in this fight
blungld
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GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.
Russia hysteria? Like the Russia threat is made up or unimportant? Do you even think before you type?
GBear4Life
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dajo9 said:

GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.


Dropping the email hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for Trumpers
Of course I agree. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Can we all just stop?

I guess people find their self identity and general world view to be positively affirmed when the party they identify with "scores"? I never understood that. There's no logical correlation between that and actually being "correct".

B.A. Bearacus
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George Conway:

"White House counsel John Dean famously told Nixon that there was a cancer within the presidency and that it was growing. What the Mueller report disturbingly shows, with crystal clarity, is that today there is a cancer in the presidency: President Donald J. Trump... Congress now bears the solemn constitutional duty to excise that cancer without delay." [WaPo op-ed]
GBear4Life
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blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.
Russia hysteria? Like the Russia threat is made up or unimportant? Do you even think before you type?
Yes. It was partisan, emotional, hate-driven speculation (on both sides) for two years. People had decided the outcome long ago.
Yogi Bear
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B.A. Bearacus said:

George Conway:

"White House counsel John Dean famously told Nixon that there was a cancer within the presidency and that it was growing. What the Mueller report disturbingly shows, with crystal clarity, is that today there is a cancer in the presidency: President Donald J. Trump... Congress now bears the solemn constitutional duty to excise that cancer without delay." [WaPo op-ed]
Keep beating that drum George!
Another Bear
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Okay there's like 6 conservatives who get what law and order means.

Seriously, what happened to the law and order GOP and conservatives types? The War on Drugs The death penalty. Three Strikes. Zero Tolerance. Waterboarding and torture?

And what happened to the Goldwater Cold War Warriors who believe the Russians were godless motherfcckers? Did Putin make them a better offer?

The irony and weirdness of course he Conway is married to Trumpkin Kelly Ann Conway.
B.A. Bearacus
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Things Coach Wilcox never said after allegations of sexual harassment in the program surfaced: "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my head coaching career. I'm fuucked."

Can someone explain why he wouldn't have said this?
Yogi Bear
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Things Coach Wilcox never said after allegations of sexual harassment in the program surfaced: "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my head coaching career. I'm fuucked."

Can someone explain why he wouldn't have said this?
Because our offense was no good at Russian the ball.
blungld
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GBear4Life said:

blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.
Russia hysteria? Like the Russia threat is made up or unimportant? Do you even think before you type?
Yes. It was partisan, emotional, hate-driven speculation (on both sides) for two years. People had decided the outcome long ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I am reading 400 pages of proof that the "speculation" I have made for two years is true and proven. So where is the proof that the opposite speculation is true and proven?
B.A. Bearacus
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I think every DT supporter on here would have to agree that they would be ok if every remaining Republican president that presides over our country during their lifetimes exhibited the same ratio of lies to truth and putting self first to putting country first as DT. They don't demand more, should not get more, and likely don't really care.
Yogi Bear
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blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.
Russia hysteria? Like the Russia threat is made up or unimportant? Do you even think before you type?
Yes. It was partisan, emotional, hate-driven speculation (on both sides) for two years. People had decided the outcome long ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I am reading 400 pages of proof that the "speculation" I have made for two years is true and proven. So where is the proof that the opposite speculation is true and proven?
You know GB4L ain't gonna read it. He's gonna believe what he's told like a good moderate liberal.
blungld
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Yogi Bear said:

blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.
Russia hysteria? Like the Russia threat is made up or unimportant? Do you even think before you type?
Yes. It was partisan, emotional, hate-driven speculation (on both sides) for two years. People had decided the outcome long ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I am reading 400 pages of proof that the "speculation" I have made for two years is true and proven. So where is the proof that the opposite speculation is true and proven?
You know GB4L ain't gonna read it. He's gonna believe what he's told like a good moderate liberal.
I am Literacy Signaling: going to go keep reading the report and see all the active ways Trump reported on any crimes he discovered and helped make sure Russia didn't have any influence on the election or the government. How at every turn he made ethical decisions and clearly did not collude or attempt to collude or obstruct or attempt to obstruct. I'm sure it's all in there, I just must not have got to it yet.
Yogi Bear
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blungld said:

Yogi Bear said:

blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

blungld said:

GBear4Life said:

Or Dems and the Left can clean up and fix their own messes, focus on how they're going to win back swing states. Dropping the Russia hysteria and racist/sexist identity politics would be a positive first step for them.
Russia hysteria? Like the Russia threat is made up or unimportant? Do you even think before you type?
Yes. It was partisan, emotional, hate-driven speculation (on both sides) for two years. People had decided the outcome long ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I am reading 400 pages of proof that the "speculation" I have made for two years is true and proven. So where is the proof that the opposite speculation is true and proven?
You know GB4L ain't gonna read it. He's gonna believe what he's told like a good moderate liberal.
I am Literacy Signaling: going to go keep reading the report and see all the active ways Trump reported on any crimes he discovered and helped make sure Russia didn't have any influence on the election or the government. How at every turn he made ethical decisions and clearly did not collude or attempt to collude or obstruct or attempt to obstruct. I'm sure it's all in there, I just must not have got to it yet.
Do me a favor and post some of the good parts here. I downloaded the report, but I don't know how much time I'll be able to give it. But I'm thinking of posting the most interesting parts for some of my more conservative Facebook people for their continuing "education."
 
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