OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

concordtom
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iwantwinners said:

I will say Hillary is probably the most insincere politician in the modern era, this plays out in the citizenry's repeated criticism of her: she's unrelatable, almost inhuman (robotic). A pure political pragmatist who will attach herself to whatever will get her elected.
So, you'd vote for Katie Couric?
concordtom
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FuzzyWuzzy said:

Nice observation but I would like to point out that this is still not a substantive response as to why one should conclude she is corrupt and lacks integrity. You're basically saying she is bad at PR and let her opponents frame the debate, something her opponents tried very, very hard to do, to the point of concocting investigations they knew were a partisan, political sham.
Again, we should actually not be discussing Hillary and her virtues or lack thereof. She's gone and isn't coming back.

Iwantwinners: Why do you like Trump?
Please, honestly, tell me how you can stand him, support him as President?
iwantwinners
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Unit2Sucks said:

It's the height of idiocy to believe that Trump is anti-PC. Anyone believe he's being anything other than PC when he talks about Christianity and Evangelicals? How does he really feel about coal miners and his other working class "heroes"? How about the uneducated that he professes love for? How about the men and women in our armed forces (other than Generals)? How about women (oh well I guess he doesn't even pretend to respect them so this one is pretty close to honest)?

He's basically just choosing to be PC where it lines up with his preferred identity politics. If there was a hot mic where he spoke truthfully about these groups it would make for great theater but surprise exactly no one who has a functioning brain.

But sure, social justice warriors and non-offensive speech is the real problem in this country.
you're making arguments against positions nobody here is necessarily taking, miscomprehending terms (identity politics), engaging in semantics by saying Trump has views he doesn't share for his own sake (of course he does; the list is endless) in order to claim he's not PC relative to D.C. political and social culture.

I never assigned a # to the hierarchy of problems and where the grievance industry (a for-profit network that builds wealth as they convince groups and individuals they are helpless victims through propaganda and lies) or the consequences of a culture that rejects facts, truth and diversity of intellectual thought as a means to protect the weak-minded who are, of course, victims (this is going on at our beloved university). I do think they're concerning, and I think they are grave to some extent, particularly for minorities themselves, as they have the most at stake. in terms of negative and positive consequences of cultural changes. You cleverly use the term "non-offensive" which is again disingenuous. The push-back against PC culture isn't a principled disdain for that which does NOT offend (and you know this), it is the rejection of the attempt to silence speech, or equate speech with a physical action in spite of whether the speech is true/false/reasoned/unreasoned/important/unimportant.

The liberal Robert Rubin defined identity politics aptly I thought:

Quote:


People who place IDENTITY, usually based on immutable characteristics in a pecking order of social importance such as race, gender, and religion, where victimhood is the highest virtue to be had. This oppression Olympics allows groups to compete for who is the most oppressed, thus the most virtuous. And if someone isn't as oppressed as you, then you have full authority to oppress them accordingly. So BLM can protest a gay right's march. White gay men can be banned from leading LGBT organizations on college campuses. Pro-life women can be kicked out of women's right's marches. This backward ideology which demands that we judge each other not by the content of their character but on the color of our skin or some other baked-in trait...It loves all of its minority groups to behave as monoliths. So if you don't subscribe to the ideas that the groupthink has attributed to you based on those immutable characteristics, you must be cast out.

Group identity has been paramount -- when the individual is reduced to their assigned group identity and also ascribed viewpoints on that basis -- that's engaging in identity politics. "You're a white male? I can sum up enough about you, and none of it is very positive. For one, your points of view don't matter and you're inherently privileged and immoral for not denouncing it". "You're a trans woman? I can sum up enough about you, you're a victim of society, so you're virtuous, you're liberal....You're not a liberal? GTFO"
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey said:

concordtom said:


Had McCain had this moment 10 years ago, he'd likely have become president.

I doubt any Republican was going to beat Obama in 2008, especially given the economic crash and how badly Bush's popularity had cratered. Just a bad year for him to have gotten the nomination.
Come on. McCain is a weak candidate and a make believe maverick. Trump is more of a maverick than McCain and look how well that has worked out. McCain once in a while goes against his party (like with the repeal vote) but he is a typical big talker but party line voter.

And if you want to talk about character - if even half of what was written about him in the Rolling Stone article is true, he's unfit to be in the discussion of someone like Obama or either Clinton.

Finally - let's not pretend like he didn't choose Sarah Palin for his running mate. Anyone with judgment that bad shouldn't be in the white house. Of course our current president has far worse judgment, but that doesn't mean that McCain was good enough. Not to mention the fact that McCain is a hawk who would probably have us fighting multiple wars just because.
Anarchistbear
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McCain's dogs$it. He's even worse than Clinton.
NYCGOBEARS
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Anarchistbear said:

McCain's dogs$it. He's even worse than Clinton.

Agreed. He's a hypocrite wrapped in a veil of false piety.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

sycasey said:

concordtom said:


Had McCain had this moment 10 years ago, he'd likely have become president.

I doubt any Republican was going to beat Obama in 2008, especially given the economic crash and how badly Bush's popularity had cratered. Just a bad year for him to have gotten the nomination.
Come on. McCain is a weak candidate and a make believe maverick. Trump is more of a maverick than McCain and look how well that has worked out. McCain once in a while goes against his party (like with the repeal vote) but he is a typical big talker but party line voter.

And if you want to talk about character - if even half of what was written about him in the Rolling Stone article is true, he's unfit to be in the discussion of someone like Obama or either Clinton.

Finally - let's not pretend like he didn't choose Sarah Palin for his running mate. Anyone with judgment that bad shouldn't be in the white house. Of course our current president has far worse judgment, but that doesn't mean that McCain was good enough. Not to mention the fact that McCain is a hawk who would probably have us fighting multiple wars just because.
My post was not meant to laud McCain, only to dispute the notion that he had any shot at beating Obama. He didn't. Probably no Republican did.
concordtom
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iwantwinners said:

11/8/16 was and is, in no exaggerated sense, a trauma of sorts evidenced by the content on this board. People are not of their right mind when working through the 7 stages of grief, they are not speaking to their own (or others') "better angels".
So, are you suggesting, that because we are upset that he won, that our points are invalid? reduced to emotional gibberish?

I disagree.
We can be both upset and have valid points.

For you to not deal with those points is simply ducking the issues.
That's okay. You explained yourself. Thank you.
concordtom
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sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

sycasey said:

concordtom said:


Had McCain had this moment 10 years ago, he'd likely have become president.

I doubt any Republican was going to beat Obama in 2008, especially given the economic crash and how badly Bush's popularity had cratered. Just a bad year for him to have gotten the nomination.
Come on. McCain is a weak candidate and a make believe maverick. Trump is more of a maverick than McCain and look how well that has worked out. McCain once in a while goes against his party (like with the repeal vote) but he is a typical big talker but party line voter.

And if you want to talk about character - if even half of what was written about him in the Rolling Stone article is true, he's unfit to be in the discussion of someone like Obama or either Clinton.

Finally - let's not pretend like he didn't choose Sarah Palin for his running mate. Anyone with judgment that bad shouldn't be in the white house. Of course our current president has far worse judgment, but that doesn't mean that McCain was good enough. Not to mention the fact that McCain is a hawk who would probably have us fighting multiple wars just because.
My post was not meant to laud McCain, only to dispute the notion that he had any shot at beating Obama. He didn't. Probably no Republican did.
Yes, and I actually agreed with you when I wrote that. But I was trying to make a point about political bravery and non-partisanship. I think that should be a shining example to ALL on BOTH sides.
B.A. Bearacus
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Madeline Albright, author of a new book called "Fascism: A Warning": "And then Mussolini had this terrific statement, which was that if you consolidate power by plucking a chicken one feather at a time, people don't notice. And so it is that -- those steps -- and it's the normalization, frankly, of the kinds of things that are going on now that made me want to do a warning... Part of it is an attack on the free press, a lack of respect for democratic institutions, thinking that you are above the law, using rallies and propaganda to get people excited and even moved to violence, not respecting the views of others. Those are the kinds of feathers, frankly."

Some of us on here notice.
Anarchistbear
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McCain votes with Trump 83% of the time. This is what passes for non partisan. The center is dead, especially for those that don't think it is
iwantwinners
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concordtom said:


So, are you suggesting, that because we are upset that he won, that our points are invalid?
Um, no.
B.A. Bearacus
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mikecohen
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Another Bear said:

Ryan isn't leaving because he got his tax cut, he's leaving because he won't be majority leader after '18 and the GOP are screwed for a generation or two. The GOP bought the farm on the Trump deal, the Mercers, the Koch Bros, the Wing Nuts, the Bible Humpers. They're done.
Repeated warnings: (1) Nobody ever lost money betting against the intelligence of the American Electorate [I keep hoping that Churchill was right when he said that the Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else]. (2) 8 weeks is an eternity in politics.
concordtom
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Madeline Albright, author of a new book called "Fascism: A Warning": "And then Mussolini had this terrific statement, which was that if you consolidate power by plucking a chicken one feather at a time, people don't notice. And so it is that -- those steps -- and it's the normalization, frankly, of the kinds of things that are going on now that made me want to do a warning... Part of it is an attack on the free press, a lack of respect for democratic institutions, thinking that you are above the law, using rallies and propaganda to get people excited and even moved to violence, not respecting the views of others. Those are the kinds of feathers, frankly."

Some of us on here notice.
I met her once in 2006.
It had been a close election with bush and gore and Florida chads, you'll recall, and then 9/11 happened and bush went Afghanistan and then Iraq too.

I asked her, if Gore had won, what would have happened after 9/11?
She said, we'd have gone into Afghanistan, but not Iraq.

bearister
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You have to figure Ryan will become a lobbyist because he has no marketable job skills.
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Send my credentials to the House of Detention
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concordtom
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Iwantwinners:
I read some of your other posts and you explain your support for trump a bit. Thank you.

One of the thing you said you like about him was his stance on immigration. I'd like to understand that better, because an argument can be made that it's very good for most all American citizens to have an illegal underclass here. Lower wage labor force available for hire is a good thing for the economy. May be immoral for one class to take advantage of another, but economics don't care.
concordtom
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bearister said:

You have to figure Ryan will become a lobbyist because he has no marketable job skills.
I really never got to know him as a VP candidate.
But I sure got to know him after he was on tv so much giving quotes on the GOP primary race, and then the race against Hillary.

He started strong, ended like a dead fish.
Good riddance!
sycasey
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B.A. Bearacus said:




Are we sure this is any different from what he did before?
dajo9
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dajo9 said:

Ryan is an old-school corrupt politician. He is resigning now because after the tax cut for the wealthy he can now go to the private sector and receive his payback. His kids will be unbelievably wealthy thanks to him.

The next Republican up can pretend to be horrified at the deficit and policies of the prior regime, just like Hastert, Boehner, and Ryan. Then, as soon as he gets his chance, he'll do exactly the same as Ryan, then leave the public sector to receive his payday. Then, it will be next man up again. It's not exactly hard to crack the code, you just have to listen to what they are doing instead of what they are saying.
And here is Bloomberg telling it like it is

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-12/ryan-poised-to-earn-millions-even-if-he-sheds-weekend-dad-role
bearister
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Steve Bannon "is pitching a plan to West Wing aides and congressional allies to cripple" Mueller's probe, per WashPost's Bob Costa:

"The first step ... would be for Trump to fire Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein."
"Bannon is also recommending the White House cease its cooperation with Mueller, reversing the policy of Trump's legal team."
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Anarchistbear
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It looks like Pompeo's confirmation may be difficult if the Dems stick together and grow a pair. Rand Paul-bless him- is opposed and that means if the Dems hold in committee it won't advance out of committee. It could still go to the total senate for a vote but there again it will be very close if the Dems hold the line- 14 Democrats who voted for him for CIA would have to vote no including Schumer and Feinstein- but she's a given, the old bag is in a primary fight and will lose for sure if she votes to confirm. This may also be the Dems last chance to save the Iran deal.
okaydo
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I heard a rumor that Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, posts here on BI. Anybody know his screenname?
BearNIt
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Did trump pardon Scooter Libby because he deserved it or did he send up a pardon balloon as a signal to those charged by Mueller, or does he want to curry favor with Republicans as he gets ready to fire Mueller. Why pardon Libby now at this time in his presidency?

What does it mean when you are getting your legal advice from Steve "Iron Cross" Bannon?

Since Trump is now refusing to sit for an interview with Mueller, it looks like Mueller and his investigators have reach conclusions in the area of obstruction and will be issuing his findings soon. Hmmmmmm, I wonder what the findings are?
concordtom
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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtCibxbgnV2zFp6uV3H05KASde5_RNVlx8qaa9mbS5Nheepfnseg


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9QDzL0oy_Tukw0AMBbQeR2VVZI66WsLfJzFWCcunO_4_NAiwc
mikecohen
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okaydo said:

I heard a rumor that Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, posts here on BI. Anybody know his screenname?
My guess is that it's Helltopay
mikecohen
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BearNIt said:

Did trump pardon Scooter Libby because he deserved it or did he send up a pardon balloon as a signal to those charged by Mueller, or does he want to curry favor with Republicans as he gets ready to fire Mueller. Why pardon Libby now at this time in his presidency?

What does it mean when you are getting your legal advice from Steve "Iron Cross" Bannon?

Since Trump is now refusing to sit for an interview with Mueller, it looks like Mueller and his investigators have reach conclusions in the area of obstruction and will be issuing his findings soon. Hmmmmmm, I wonder what the findings are?
The word seems to be out (or not out, as the case may be) that Mueller's alternatives (as a matter of strategy) do not include subpenaing Trump to testify before the Grand Jury. Maybe someone in the know might want to elucidate on that point.
B.A. Bearacus
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James Comey: "This president is unethical, and untethered to truth and institutional values... His leadership is transactional, ego driven and about personal loyalty."
bearister
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Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
concordtom
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Hannity is an idiot.
It's amazing to me that he can go out there and spin BS with conviction the way he does.
"Untethered from the truth" is the phrase for this week.

I mean, the Mueller crime family? Seriously?
I guess the only way such material goes away is when viewers stop watching, advertisers stop advertising. Otherwise, anyone can say anything - free speech.
concordtom
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Perhaps that kid in Florida who got rejected by ucla with a 4.3 gpa can put together a list of corporations who support lies by advertising on a show that lies.
Anarchistbear
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B.A. Bearacus said:

James Comey: "This president is unethical, and untethered to truth and institutional values... His leadership is transactional, ego driven and about personal loyalty."


Watching these two dicks, Trump and Comey, battle it out is strangely exhilarating
concordtom
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Let's not forget the news that trump is now flip flopping on the decision to stay or leave the TPP trade pact.
He's just winging it each day.
Never had a plan for much.
BearChemist
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BearNIt said:

Did trump pardon Scooter Libby because he deserved it or did he send up a pardon balloon as a signal to those charged by Mueller, or does he want to curry favor with Republicans as he gets ready to fire Mueller. Why pardon Libby now at this time in his presidency?

What does it mean when you are getting your legal advice from Steve "Iron Cross" Bannon?

Since Trump is now refusing to sit for an interview with Mueller, it looks like Mueller and his investigators have reach conclusions in the area of obstruction and will be issuing his findings soon. Hmmmmmm, I wonder what the findings are?

BearDevil
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Trump's getting ready to fire Rosenstein and Mueller and pardon Manafort, Flynn, Gates, and Cohen. Mueller gave Flynn and Gates sweetheart deals to cooperate. Trump has no jurisdiction over state laws, so his cronies will still rack up huge legal bills and face time in state prison. With friends like Trump...
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