OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

BearDevil
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Only know one Trump true believer. Got together for lunch and beers last weekend. Both steered clear of discussing Trump directly, but Rudy did come up. We both readily agreed that Rudy has gone off the rails. Can't understand thinking Rudy is insane, but Trump is OK. Took it as a tacit admission that he knew/knows Trump's a train wreck, but will never admit it. Dems need to come up with a strong 2020 message/candidate or Trump may win again. Trump's base may be cagey with pollsters, friends, or acquaintances, but they're stubborn and won't hesitate to vote for Trump again.
Another Bear
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blungld
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I don't get how they think this is a sound and non-damning argument: the WAY you found out that I am a crook needs to be investigated.

They keep admitting guilt and acting like guilt is not the story. And the supporters keep looking where they point instead of what they admit.

Many many security agencies here and abroad tracked Russian intelligence to Trump, not the other way around.

To buy into Trump's cover up you have to ignore that his explanations shift; that they don't make sense; that they don't ever address or explain his own actions or the known facts; that they are not consistent within his own inner circle let alone with the reporting of every intelligence organization; that they so clearly sound like misdirection and alibi; that they have been in concert with other activities of cover up like firing people; that they are attacks rather than explanations; that the investigation only kept turning up more guilt and illegal activity; and that NOTHING is ever said under oath by the supposed innocent.

In short, to believe this mess you have to become entirely disconnected from reality, to commit to total denial of evidence; and to see everything only in terms of a loyalty test rather than the rule of law or logic And if you don't care about that, you don't care about America no matter how many flags you wave or red hats you wear.

In some ways it is disturbing that some of the best reporting is coming from other countries. From the Observer:

The counterintelligence investigation of Donald Trump was kicked off by not one, not two, but multiple SIGINT reports which set off alarm bells inside our Intelligence Community. This has been publicly known, in a general way, for some time. A little over a year ago, the Guardian reported, based on multiple intelligence sources, that the lead was taken by Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ Britain's NSA), which "first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious 'interactions' between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the U.S. as part of a routine exchange of information."

This quote is particularly disturbing: "...by the time that Donald Trump officially accepted the Republican nomination in mid-July 2016, "We knew we had a Russian agent on our hands," as a senior NSA official put it to me recently."

Like the NRA, the Trump campaign itself became an instrument of Russian corruption and policy. That, not the made up "spy gate" is bigger than Watergate and a greatest threat to our country. We've all grown partially numb, but just step back and consider what we're talking about and how unfathomable it is. The "patriotic" NRA and Republican party and conservative media all were on the take from Russian mafia. The heartland Americans were more ready to follow Russian propaganda that focused on mistrust, anger, and hate then to stand for the actual ideals of the Constitution--they willfully abdicated the ability to distinguish between rhetoric and reality if it justified their belief system and made them feel like winners.

Observer article on start of investigation
Another Bear
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The story of the Russian mob is real. Ask Spain. They had a YUUGE problem and had to get a task force together to rid them of the problem. It was bad. The Russkie mob is backed by Putin and the Kremlin. Yeah the U.S. does some really ef'ed up things foreign policy wise but the logic is based on security, as misguided as that might be. The Russians however are backing full criminal enterprise and the connections with the old KGB, oligarchs and mob are real.

This is a good read about how Spain got rid of the Russian mob.

The Atlantic: Gangsters of the Mediterranean
Quote:

The story of the Russian mob in Spainand the detectives who spent years trying to bring them down


blungld
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Another Bear said:



Rudy comes right out and says that eventually there will be an impeachment proceeding. So how in a completely Republican Congress, and if there is NOTHING to the investigation, do we get to an impeachment proceeding unless this is NOT a witch hunt, he knows it is not a witch hunt, he knows that Trump is guilty, and he knows the Mueller investigation will prove guilt such that there has to be an impeachment proceeding.

He can't say both that it's illegitimate AND that it is completely true and will be effective.

Wake up FOX viewers this is insane.
mikecohen
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blungld said:

To buy into Trump's cover up you have to ignore that his explanations shift; that they don't make sense; that they don't ever address or explain his own actions or the known facts; that they are not consistent within his own inner circle let alone with the reporting of every intelligence organization; that they so clearly sound like misdirection and alibi; that they have been in concert with other activities of cover up like firing people; that they are attacks rather than explanations; that the investigation only kept turning up more guilt and illegal activity; and that NOTHING is ever said under oath by the supposed innocent.

In short, to believe this mess you have to become entirely disconnected from reality, to commit to total denial of evidence; and to see everything only in terms of a loyalty test rather than the rule of law or logic And if you don't care about that, you don't care about America no matter how many flags you wave or red hats you wear.
Yes, at this point, the real issue is the frighteningly large percentage of the American electorate which this describes; and, as is becoming more and more unavoidable in this discussion in our country: More or less recent history has the most awful parallels of whole countries falling under the spell of such out and out lies designed to play to the most idiotic, albeit pervasive, prejudices of enough of the population to oppress not only the rest of the population but, to a large extent, the whole world.
mikecohen
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blungld said:

Another Bear said:



Rudy comes right out and says that eventually there will be an impeachment proceeding. So how in a completely Republican Congress, and if there is NOTHING to the investigation, do we get to an impeachment proceeding unless this is NOT a witch hunt, he knows it is not a witch hunt, he knows that Trump is guilty, and he knows the Mueller investigation will prove guilt such that there has to be an impeachment proceeding.

He can't say both that it's illegitimate AND that it is completely true and will be effective.

Wake up FOX viewers this is insane.
Although Rudy cannot be counted on to have thought through much if anything of what he says these days: Taken literally, he is expecting the Democrats to take over the house, which would be nice, although I believe it would not be surprising if the Republican voter suppression and faux news echo machine were able to prevail
BearDevil
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Rudy's not all there, but that doesn't excuse his dangerous tactics. We've already seen deranged individuals on opposite ends of the political spectrum shoot Steve Scaliese and the alleged Pizzagare spot.

Ryan has recklessly let Nunes run amok and Cocaine Mitch won't entertain bipartisan legislation protecting Mueller's investigation. What Trump and Rudy are doing is not even remotely a dog whistle, They're directly inciting the hardcore Trump base. Would be far from shocked if Mueller, Rosenstein, Comey, or Schiff were physically harmed.
Atlanta Olympic bomber and the Tiller abortion assasination come to mind..
bearister
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Another Bear
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Can you say, CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS? Good info to have. Now we know what the fight is with Trump.

IMO, he won't step down and will fight to the end, per the fascist and Nazi braintrust in the Dotard admin. If there's one thing about Nazi strategy, it's all or nothing with a real zest of nihilism and destruction. This is the Nazi mindset and this is how you get a Holocaust. You're not playing a typical game here...the end game is death.

The Nazi war strategy was all or nothing with very little room for error. I believe the Trumpies will play this the same way. Bannon and Miller get their wish of death or glory.

The question is how does this end. And how do you stop Nazis inside, who have major Russkie backing?


bearister
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These are the kind of people tRump and his posse are in bed with and I am sure he would do the same to journalists critical of him if he thought he could get away with it like Putin does.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/29/russian-journalist-arkady-babchenko-shot-dead-in-kiev?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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B.A. Bearacus
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B.A. Bearacus
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Fox-watching conservatives, is Shep Smith insane, plain stupid, or both?
blungld
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Does it not seem that we are starting to see FOX and Republicans (like Gowdy & Rubio) moving into save your ass territory? I am guessing they are starting to be convinced that Trump is going down--probably the evidence revealed in meeting last week was part of this (either very convincing or also included incriminating evidence against those in the meeting).

I think that part of this will be the "re-programming" of the American right. FOX and others will try and distance themselves from the messages they have been sending and the role they played in creating the misinformation campaign--and will now try and find a different perspective that absolves the right and tries to reconstitute a "new right" as if nothing evil happened and they should suffer no consequence and they never said those things.

They will scramble to form a new 40% by any means--with a new message of true conservatism fiscal policy blah blah blah. But it's all a sham. They will say or do anything to have a malleable voting block (message and principle is completely meaningless just as long as it sections off some large block of the population that they can keep angry and voting) that they can hide behind and make economic policy for corporations and the rich.

All any of these calls to the past; declarations of patriotism, Founding Fathers, and the Constitution; antipathy towards Liberals, PC, and social justice; and all the other assorted dog whistles, is all just made up crap that they don't really believe to keep the wealthy wealthy and with all the outrage directed at the wrong people.

Rising health care, don't blame the rich executives in the healthcare industry. Look over there at socialism! Booooooo!

Income inequality, don't look at tax breaks and loop holes. Look over there at regulation! Booooo!

Big government, don't look at military spending. Look over there at education and social programs! Booooo!

Corrupt government who don't follow the people's expressed issues and concerns, don't look at lobbyists. Look over there at Deep State conspiracies! Booooo!

Violence in our society, don't look at guns. Look over there at mental illness, pornography, and the number of doors in buildings! Boooooo!

It goes on and on. As long as it makes old people and uneducated people and rural red staters angry, and urban conservatives wealthy, it's good policy!
Unit2Sucks
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If one thing is clear, somehow when/if Trump goes down his enablers at Fox news and elsewhere in conservative media and the republican party will find a way to characterize themselves as the true victims here and to find a way to blame it on Obama and by extension all progressives. Initially there will be wild gyrations trying to find a message that resonates, but eventually they will coalesce on something and run it into the ground.
Anarchistbear
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I don't see any coming to God moment among Republicans- quite the opposite. The midterms are being positioned as a referendum on impeachment and the rigged witch hunt by the 11 angry Democrats under Mueller.
okaydo
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NYCGOBEARS
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okaydo said:




So gross.
Another Bear
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I saw that Kimmie K was heading the WH and I thought W.T.F., why? Did Dotard ask to see her butt up close?

Okay she was there to discuss prison reform. Frankly what do either of those idiots know about prison reform? A better topic for those two to discuss would be mental health and malignant narcissism, an affliction Kanye shares with Trump.
okaydo
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bearister
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I rest my case. Our Country is being run by D list celebrities.

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sonofabear51
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This has sunk to levels I never would have predicted. Wow. *** is really going on? I have an idea. We are getting screwed. In addition to trying to
taking everything away? Guess we will see....
okaydo
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dajo9
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okaydo said:



D'Souza admitted guilt to illegal campaign contributions

"I knew that causing a campaign contribution to be made in the name of another was wrong and something the law forbids," D'Souza said, according to Newsday. "I deeply regret my conduct."

You get pardons in this Administration if you are a conservative supporter. The Administration pressures the DOJ to prosecute you if you are a liberal.
bearister
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tRump is familiarizing himself with the gears and levers of the Pardon Machinery.

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okaydo
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Great article...Brian Beutler, editor in chief of Crooked Media, is a Cal alum. (He didn't write the article.)

Another Bear
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Audiotape of Michael Cohen threatening a journalist in 2015. It was released on NPR today.
Another Bear
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LISTEN: How Michael Cohen Protects Trump By Making Legal Threats (NPR)
B.A. Bearacus
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bearister
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Another Bear
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TMZ Goes MAGA: How Harvey Levin's Gossip Empire Became Trump's Best Friend

bearister
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https://theweeklylist.org/weekly-list/week-80/
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concordtom
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I don't care if trump has colluded, obstructed, or committed ANY crimes.
Plain and simple, he's an asssholl who needs to leave the WH.
Unacceptable character.
blungld
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concordtom said:

I don't care if trump has colluded, obstructed, or committed ANY crimes.
Plain and simple, he's an asssholl who needs to leave the WH.
Unacceptable character.


Even if totally innocent (we all know he's not), he should be removed for breaking his Oath. He serves himself, he lies, he makes us less safe, he has shown no concern for illegal acts by his administration, doesn't care that Russia attacked us, erodes rule of law, undermines democracy, and only governs for the rich and loyal. He is not a President for all Americans, and so he should not be President at all for any Americans.

And he's a jerk.
bearister
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Bottom line: Regardless of the evidence the Republicans will never impeach tRump.

Since 40% of the country is tRumpist, a prosecutor would never get a unanimous jury vote to convict a tRump Crime Family member or associate. For that reason, it is a bit confusing to me why those 5 men in Cheeto's orbit plea bargained. All they needed was one tRumpist on the jury to get a hung jury. We have a Fox News fueled Culture War on our hands and the only thing that matters is team loyalty, not facts or the law.
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