OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

bearister
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mikecohen said:

"Applause to an artist is like food to a hungry man." Sonny Rollins


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bearister
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blungld said:

I just saw the Republican report on Russian collusion. As I've said from the beginning, I just wanted this fairly investigated and whatever the outcome I would move on in support of the findings. Clearly, as this report concludes, there is nothing to see here and Trump and his administration are completely innocent despite appearances and just made a few small errors in judgement. Hey, we all make mistakes.

We will have to remember the names of these members of Congress who signed this report so that we can all look back at them as American heroes who worked in pursuit of justice and exonerated our President. We can not forget to ensure that they too are duly rewarded by history.

I guess we can end this thread here (poetically on page 45) and be done, right?

The first 5 reasons their report is codswallop:

George Papadopoulos
Michael Flynn
Rick Gates
Richard Pinedo
Alex van der Zwaan
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BearNIt
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blungld said:

I just saw the Republican report on Russian collusion. As I've said from the beginning, I just wanted this fairly investigated and whatever the outcome I would move on in support of the findings. Clearly, as this report concludes, there is nothing to see here and Trump and his administration are completely innocent despite appearances and just made a few small errors in judgement. Hey, we all make mistakes.

We will have to remember the names of these members of Congress who signed this report so that we can all look back at them as American heroes who worked in pursuit of justice and exonerated our President. We can not forget to ensure that they too are duly rewarded by history.

I guess we can end this thread here (poetically on page 45) and be done, right?
I wanted to thank Devin Nunes and those brave Republican members of the House Intel Committee who despite pressure from the President, decided to do the people's work and do what is right for our country and protect the institutions of this Republic. Their actions will be remembered by all and they will go down in history as principled, courageous, and independent Americans. Kids all over America will pay homage to those who signed their names to the House Intelligence Report. Thank God It's Over and we have nothing to worry about. The rumors regarding the Russian's are false and they deserve an apology from The President of The United States of America.

Now I can sleep at night knowing America is safe once more.
blungld
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BearNIt said:

blungld said:

I just saw the Republican report on Russian collusion. As I've said from the beginning, I just wanted this fairly investigated and whatever the outcome I would move on in support of the findings. Clearly, as this report concludes, there is nothing to see here and Trump and his administration are completely innocent despite appearances and just made a few small errors in judgement. Hey, we all make mistakes.

We will have to remember the names of these members of Congress who signed this report so that we can all look back at them as American heroes who worked in pursuit of justice and exonerated our President. We can not forget to ensure that they too are duly rewarded by history.

I guess we can end this thread here (poetically on page 45) and be done, right?
I wanted to thank Devin Nunes and those brave Republican members of the House Intel Committee who despite pressure from the President, decided to do the people's work and do what is right for our country and protect the institutions of this Republic. Their actions will be remembered by all and they will go down in history as principled, courageous, and independent Americans. Kids all over America will pay homage to those who signed their names to the House Intelligence Report. Thank God It's Over and we have nothing to worry about. The rumors regarding the Russian's are false and they deserve an apology from The President of The United States of America.

Now I can sleep at night knowing America is safe once more.


Never forget these patriots:
Devin Nunes, California, Chair
Mike Conaway, Texas
Peter King, New York
Frank LoBiondo, New Jersey
Rick Crawford, Arkansas
Trey Gowdy, South Carolina
Tom Rooney, Florida
Will Hurd, Texas
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Florida
Mike Turner, Ohio
Brad Wenstrup, Ohio
Chris Stewart, Utah
Elise Stefanik, New York
bearister
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Nunes and his fraidy cat face is going to end up in prison for obstruction of justice.
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NYCGOBEARS
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bearister said:

Nunes and his fraidy cat face is going to end up in prison for obstruction of justice.

Don't get me excited.
blungld
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bearister said:

Nunes and his fraidy cat face is going to end up in prison for obstruction of justice.


There is a lot of uncertainty about how all of this plays out, but the one guy not already accused that I'd put money on ending up in prison is Nunes. Save a pardon or plea deal, Manafort, Cohen, and Nunes all seem to be sure things for the crowbar motel.
BearDevil
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Ambitious House hacks with no statewide upward mobility (Nunes, Issa, McCarthy) are dangerous. McCarthy has a chance to become Speaker or Minority Leader, but both are terrible jobs given the current GOP. Not going from there to part of the 2020 or 2024 GOP ticket.

Ryan didn't run for VP as a bridge to Speaker. Had to know what a miserable job it had been for Boehner, but still took the job. Has done a crappy job and has damaged his elective future. Could probably still win as WI Governor, but won't risk a loss. Doing Trump's bidding killed his presidential ambitions. Will make a pile of money, but needlessly destroyed his political future by pursuing a crappy job and doing poorly.

McConnell's a weasel, but Majority Leader has long been his dream job and he'll do anything to keep it. He'll resign immediately if the GOP loses the Senate.
blungld
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BearDevil said:

Ambitious House hacks with no statewide upward mobility (Nunes, Issa, McCarthy) are dangerous. McCarthy has a chance to become Speaker or Minority Leader, but both are terrible jobs given the current GOP. Not going from there to part of the 2020 or 2024 GOP ticket.

Ryan didn't run for VP as a bridge to Speaker. Had to know what a miserable job it had been for Boehner, but still took the job. Has done a crappy job and has damaged his elective future. Could probably still win as WI Governor, but won't risk a loss. Doing Trump's bidding killed his presidential ambitions. Will make a pile of money, but needlessly destroyed his political future by pursuing a crappy job and doing poorly.

McConnell's a weasel, but Majority Leader has long been his dream job and he'll do anything to keep it. He'll resign immediately if the GOP loses the Senate.


Isn't it lovely utopian dream that you are describing our public servants?

The masses collective lizard brain can't help but put "alpha" males in power and support a system greed. Would be great if they could remember that the meek are supposed to inherit the earth. The world and country would be so much better if it were governed by the "weak."
mikecohen
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blungld said:

BearDevil said:

Ambitious House hacks with no statewide upward mobility (Nunes, Issa, McCarthy) are dangerous. McCarthy has a chance to become Speaker or Minority Leader, but both are terrible jobs given the current GOP. Not going from there to part of the 2020 or 2024 GOP ticket.

Ryan didn't run for VP as a bridge to Speaker. Had to know what a miserable job it had been for Boehner, but still took the job. Has done a crappy job and has damaged his elective future. Could probably still win as WI Governor, but won't risk a loss. Doing Trump's bidding killed his presidential ambitions. Will make a pile of money, but needlessly destroyed his political future by pursuing a crappy job and doing poorly.

McConnell's a weasel, but Majority Leader has long been his dream job and he'll do anything to keep it. He'll resign immediately if the GOP loses the Senate.


Isn't it lovely utopian dream that you are describing our public servants?

The masses collective lizard brain can't help but put "alpha" males in power and support a system greed. Would be great if they could remember that the meek are supposed to inherit the earth. The world and country would be so much better if it were governed by the "weak."
FWIW: I do believe that the New Testament's point on this is that the "meek" are NOT weak, but are stronger (and more beneficial to person-kind) because of their humility (i.e., triumph over their own ego - the biggest challenge for all of us - to get out of our own way)
bearister
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Another Bear
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Filmmakers of 'Active Measures' Documentary Assert Donald Trump Has Been Putin's Puppet for Decades
Quote:

Watching Jack Bryan's explosive documentary "Active Measures," about Russia's espionage program and the effect it had on the 2016 U.S. presidential election, could be likened to watching a 21st century version of Watergate.

The film, debuting at Hot Docs film festival in Toronto Monday, features archival footage and a bevy of interviews with key Washington figures including former CIA director James Woolsey, former United States Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul, former F.B.I. special agent Clint Watts, Hillary Clinton and John McCain. Via these interviews "Active Measures" constructs a powerful argument as to how Soviet modern warfare tactics "active measures" shifted the 2016 U.S. presidential elections and weakened Western democracy. The film also meticulously documents Trump's problematic financial relationship with the Russian oligarchy that began decades ago.

"Russians have a particular type of mark who they go after," explains one of the film's interview subjects, senator Sheldon Whitehouse. "They go after somebody who has business resources, perhaps some shady morals so they are amenable to bribery or perhaps are in a difficult financial situation and (someone who) has political connections or aspirations. I've just described Donald Trump. He was the perfect mark for the Russians."





BearNIt
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The President is outraged that private information such as the questions that Mueller wants to asked Trump have been leaked. This despite the fact that many believe it was the President's legal team that leaked the questions. The fake outrage by the President and the Assistant Press Secretary is not a good look.
Unit2Sucks
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The NYT pretty clearly stated it came from someone close to Trump's legal team:

Quote:

according to questions read by the special counsel investigators to the president's lawyers, who compiled them into a list. That document was provided to The Times by a person outside Mr. Trump's legal team.

Another Bear
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Former Mueller aide thinks the leaked list of Mueller's questions actually came from the White House
Unit2Sucks
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I'm not sure Zeldin needed to write that much when the NYT explicitly says that's what happened. I mean, there is some question as to who outside the legal team provided the list to the NYT, but I don't think there is any world under which Mueller's team went to the trouble of getting a copy of the list compiled by Trump's lawyers when they have the original questions that they could leak.

I have zero doubt in my mind that this had nothing to do with Mueller. The only question is whether someone close to Trump did this to help or hurt him. Anything's possible with these clowns.
blungld
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It makes me mad that these questions can get spun in any way other than a completely obvious and fair list of questions--mostly just asking Trump to clarify his own words and actions--that the President (if he was innocent) should have ZERO difficulty answering. Answers, from him, are the very least the American public should demand and deserves.

This man needs to explain himself.

I see on FOX Senator King stating that the questions show they have no information and that it is a trap? What? There can't be a trap if nothing happened. He says that the President will answer questions and that they will dig through millions of documents and find some tiny contradiction and imply something criminal. Again, what? That's not how it works. If the President says something SUBSTANTIALLY untrue and another piece of evidence proves that he has then that isn't "gotcha," that's called proving he's lying. You think Mueller is trying to catch him accidentally saying yellow when something was blue? He's showing when Trump knew about Russian cooperation and if he played a role. That's not some tiny technical detail.

I just can't stand that the public and our government are working against the truth. Can we all just find out what ACTUALLY happened and then make up our collective mind what to do about it instead of throwing reality and our personal ethics into the toilet?
BearChemist
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Another Bear
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Mueller floated subpoena for Trump in legal team meeting: report
Quote:

Special counsel Robert Mueller suggested to President Trump's lawyers earlier this year that he would subpoena Trump to appear before a grand jury if the president refused to talk with his team, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.

Mueller made the comment in response to the Trump legal team's argument during the March meeting that the president wasn't obligated to speak with federal investigators in the probe into Russian election interference, according to the Post.

"This isn't some game," Trump's then-lawyer John Dowd reportedly replied. "You are screwing with the work of the president of the United States."

The Post also reported that Trump's attorneys created a list of questions they believed that Mueller's team would ask the president during the interview.

Those questions were based off the topics that Mueller's probe told Trump's lawyers they wanted to discuss with the president.

The New York Times first reported the questions Monday night.

A spokesman for the special counsel declined to comment to the Post for its report Tuesday. Trump's lawyer Jay Sekulow and Dowd both also declined to comment.

DEVELOPING



mikecohen
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Another Bear said:

Mueller floated subpoena for Trump in legal team meeting: report
Quote:

Special counsel Robert Mueller suggested to President Trump's lawyers earlier this year that he would subpoena Trump to appear before a grand jury if the president refused to talk with his team, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.

Mueller made the comment in response to the Trump legal team's argument during the March meeting that the president wasn't obligated to speak with federal investigators in the probe into Russian election interference, according to the Post.

"This isn't some game," Trump's then-lawyer John Dowd reportedly replied. "You are screwing with the work of the president of the United States."

The Post also reported that Trump's attorneys created a list of questions they believed that Mueller's team would ask the president during the interview.

Those questions were based off the topics that Mueller's probe told Trump's lawyers they wanted to discuss with the president.

The New York Times first reported the questions Monday night.

A spokesman for the special counsel declined to comment to the Post for its report Tuesday. Trump's lawyer Jay Sekulow and Dowd both also declined to comment.

DEVELOPING



Lawrence O'Donnell, in some what-looked-to-me-like brilliant analysis, established, at least in my mind, that the story was a put-up job by John Dowd (ex-Trump-legal-team guy who quit when it began to appear that he himself might have some exposure). Why?:
(1) To hope to spin to make the silly arguments (that they are in fact making) that the questions show no evidence of collusion (which, per usual with this crowd, is far from the truth), and
(2) to make Dowd look like a hero to Trump supporters for a supposed quote from him supposedly standing up to the Mueller Team in a way that, any attorney would know, does not conform with anything that would happen in real life (unless Dowd wanted to get humiliated in real time for the quoted remarks).
bearister
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LOCK'EM UP! DAMN RIGHT! LOCK'EM ALL UP!

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blungld
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With the caveat that my posts on this thread are perhaps starting to become redundant, I can't help writing a reaction after seeing Trump's tweets about the so-called Mueller questions. His tweets are so impacted with misinformation, but he knows how to speak to his base and fuel their mistrust and allow them to keep to their agreed upon narrative. If you live in the universe of FOX and these tweets, you simply are not exposed to the analysis and facts that make Trump's statements ludicrous.

It made me wonder why this works so well, and are we just screwed? Are we in for a string of bombastic, insulting, demagogues?

I don't know, but in the simplest terms, here is where I think we are (and of course others have written far more eloquently about this). There is a large group of people who consider themselves "Real Americans." Intellectuals, experts, feminists, gays, non-whites, non-Christians, are all "others" that the Real Americans define themselves in simple opposition to.

The Real Americans feel like their country is changing, being invaded, and taken away so they cling to a comfortable narrative and to people in power who LOOK and SOUND like them. They are not inspired by true greatness, they are threatened by it. They define great in the crass terms of materialism and power (authoritarian terms), not in terms of aspiration, enlightenment, spiritual growth, or idealism (these are Christians who would have stoned Jesus). What their leaders actually say or do is not important. Their thinking only goes so far as "yes that person too is a Real American." All the energy and animus of this tribe is directed against their feared future. They endeavor to wall off and dwell in the past--to be at the center of a world they understand and that values them. They do not need to be "great" themselves, they just need to belong (which is sadly ironic since the "identity politics" they loath is ultimately about wanting to belong and so they should understand).

Empathy is, I believe, the only learned emotion. Many of these Real Americans were raised without it and see it as weakness. Blame, anger, and reverse-victimhood is their substitute.

They see Liberals (and that is basically every "other" thrown in one bucket) as not American. So, if Liberals are fighting for anything (it could be giving away free money), they will fight against it because they see it as a fight to preserve America from these others. They DO NOT listen to what is being said or the facts. It's just who is saying it. They can even have critical thoughts about Trump (I wish he wouldn't tweet so much), but it's like a person who feels they can criticize their own mother, but YOU can't. Trump is theirs. If Liberals are saying he is guilty or criminal, it can't be true because they themselves are not criminals. And if they are decent God-faring people, than anything they support must also be righteous.

They have no idea about how their tribalism and prejudice works. They are the masses of unexamined lives. They will NEVER think Trump is guilty until twenty years from now when history says he was and then they will act like they never were on Trump's team. Justice needs to ignore these people because they will not do what is right at any point. One can not treat them like rational adults or hold out hope that they will ultimately defend the public good, Constitution, or country itself--their country does not include all of us.
BearNIt
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The fact that another attorney (Ty Cobbs) of the President' has "retired" in the middle of his legal battle with Mueller, has to speak volumes about his legal position in the investigations. The fact that you hired a Clinton attorney is at best ironic and at worst the realization that you need somebody Washington's elite circle of attorneys to defend you as Mueller has indicated that he is willing to subpoena a sitting President, means you are worried about answering the type of questions we have heard could be posed to Trump. With Mueller asking for an extension regarding the sentencing hearing for Flynn and advising that they still have a lot of work to do, Dowd becoming part of the investigation due to pardons, and Cohen's treasure trove of evidence recovered by the FBI, Trump is sounding like someone who is increasingly under great legal pressure.

What ever happened to Jared Kushner? Did he die or something because nobody has heard a peep from that clown? Wasn't he tasked with obtaining Middle East peace, resolving the opiate crisis, climate change, and world hunger?
bearister
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Because of the Culture War, 40% of the country buys the Fox News narrative. If I was a tRump Crime Family member or associate and got indicted, I wouldn't plea. Mathematically you have to figure, at a minimum, you are going to get at least one juror willing to engage in jury nullification and refuse to follow the law. Hung jury, Baby!
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Another Bear
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BearNIt said:


What ever happened to Jared Kushner? Did he die or something because nobody has heard a peep from that clown? Wasn't he tasked with obtaining Middle East peace, resolving the opiate crisis, climate change, and world hunger?
Jared went into minor hiding after his security clearance was downgraded, and he's laying low because he's heavily implicated with the Russkie stuff. Word is Mueller has saved going after the Trump family until end. It makes sense, start with the smallest fish and work your way up to the top.
bearister
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Stormy was the theme song for tRump's Porno Problem. I nominate this as his theme song for the alleged 49 Mueller questions:

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blungld
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Another Bear said:

BearNIt said:


What ever happened to Jared Kushner? Did he die or something because nobody has heard a peep from that clown? Wasn't he tasked with obtaining Middle East peace, resolving the opiate crisis, climate change, and world hunger?
Jared went into minor hiding after his security clearance was downgraded, and he's laying low because he's heavily implicated with the Russkie stuff. Word is Mueller has saved going after the Trump family until end. It makes sense, start with the smallest fish and work your way up to the top.
This makes sense to me. I suspect that going after Trump's family and sealed indictment on State level or RICO are Mueller's protection and final steps.

I worry that these attorney's leaving is a signal that Trump is near too to his final moves: a mass firing, external conflict distraction, and all out media blitz. I think before this is over we will see something much worse than the Saturday night massacre...and then it will be up to that 40% to believe that he is cleaning house and saving us from a coup, or that that this is the act of a traitor and criminal. I fear that they will believe his tweets over filed documents--and I don't trust Congress to act if they feel no heat from that base.

In the end, he may survive a while longer, do serious harm to our institutions and public discourse--but he will be indicted and the co-conspirators will be held accountable. This year, next year...after office? I don't know. But history and American culture will come to hear Trump and Traitor as synonymous as Benedict Arnold.

Too bad that his base only come to enlightenment after being forced to on so many things.
Another Bear
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Trump's lawyer in Russia probe is retiring
Quote:

Ty Cobb, the lawyer leading President Trump's legal team in the special counsel's Russian investigation, is retiring and Trump is planning on hiring as a replacement an attorney who represented Bill Clinton during his impeachment, a report said Wednesday.

"It has been an honor to serve the country in this capacity at the White House. I wish everybody well moving forward," Cobb told the New York Times, adding that he informed the president weeks ago that he planned on retiring.

The SS Dotard is taking on water. Even his lawyer dislikes the possibility of being on the wrong side of history.
NYCGOBEARS
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Another Bear said:

Trump's lawyer in Russia probe is retiring
Quote:

Ty Cobb, the lawyer leading President Trump's legal team in the special counsel's Russian investigation, is retiring and Trump is planning on hiring as a replacement an attorney who represented Bill Clinton during his impeachment, a report said Wednesday.

"It has been an honor to serve the country in this capacity at the White House. I wish everybody well moving forward," Cobb told the New York Times, adding that he informed the president weeks ago that he planned on retiring.

The SS Dotard is taking on water. Even his lawyer dislikes the possibility of being on the wrong side of history.

A Ty Cobb being on the wrong side of history is not a new thing.
BearDevil
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The Trump true believers will never jump ship, but if it truly were a witch hunt why would Trump need to keep adding and subtracting attorneys?
bearister
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BearDevil said:

The Trump true believers will never jump ship, but if it truly were a witch hunt why would Trump need to keep adding and subtracting attorneys?


A Fox News response would be: Because even an innocent man needs good legal counsel when faced with a Deep State conspiracy to frame him.
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Anarchistbear
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So the Trumpster is hiring a lawyer who has Bill and Crooked Hillary as a client. Pretty soon he'll be tweeting about special prosecutor witch hunts of "loyal public servants."
B.A. Bearacus
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BearNIt
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bearister said:

Stormy was the theme song for tRump's Porno Problem. I nominate this as his theme song for the alleged 49 Mueller questions:


One of my favorite bands.
bearister
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BearNIt said:

bearister said:

Stormy was the theme song for tRump's Porno Problem. I nominate this as his theme song for the alleged 49 Mueller questions:


One of my favorite bands.

Saw CSN&Y at a Day of the Green in Oakland, July, 1974. Line up was The Band, Joe Walsh and Barnstorm, Jesse Colin Young and Rick Derringer. Neil had cut his long hair.

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