OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

Another Bear
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B.A. Bearacus said:

"Minority Whip Steny Hoyer just delivered an impassioned speech about Russia and Trump on the floor and now Democrats are very loudly and spiritedly chanting "U-S-A!"

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4741001/hoyer-speech-usa-chant
Pretty odd hearing that chant aimed at something actually patriotic and meaningful like a real defense of America from an enemy.

It's amazing how the GOP are so blind to the Russian hacking and interference. I guess the GOP went limp and stupid after Ronnie Raygun spoke those famous words, "Tear down this wall!" They just figured the Russians were suddenly our BFF, all was good, nothing to worry about.

The GOP, from Reagan telling Gorbachev to tear down the wall...to becoming complete lackeys and stooges. The willful blindness is stunning.
B.A. Bearacus
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Trump responds to Putin's "u up?" messaging by stating that he is "looking forward" to meeting with Putin again.
Another Bear
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The Dems finally have something that sticks to Trump, mostly because Trump is incompetent and beholdened to Putin. Hate to bring the red scare crap back but in this case, the irony and need is too much. Dems should throttle the GOP on this. For god sake, it's party over country and basic treason.

Anarchistbear
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Trump should have a summit with just himself. Both the Republicans and Democrats would say he shouldn't go
Another Bear
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This is the Trump solo summit. This is the debriefing stage. The stank tells everyone that they should/shouldn't, would/wouldn't go.

B.A. Bearacus
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AB, what's your Venmo? Will send you an invoice for my lunch.
Another Bear
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Sorry about lunch BA but no refunds until Dotard is gone.

- The Management
sycasey
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Another Bear said:

Pretty odd hearing that chant aimed at something actually patriotic and meaningful like a real defense of America from an enemy.

It's amazing how the GOP are so blind to the Russian hacking and interference. I guess the GOP went limp and stupid after Ronnie Raygun spoke those famous words, "Tear down this wall!" They just figured the Russians were suddenly our BFF, all was good, nothing to worry about.

The GOP, from Reagan telling Gorbachev to tear down the wall...to becoming complete lackeys and stooges. The willful blindness is stunning.
I don't think they are blind to it. They know that Trump is a big problem. Unfortunately, they also know that a large portion of their voter base (at least 1/3, if not more) will follow Trump no matter what, and they are scared of what will happen if they go against him.

Of course, the Republicans had their chance to denounce Trump before he got elected, but they made their choice -- they wanted the power. They wanted to control Congress and get that Supreme Court seat. They went along with it. Now they are facing the consequences.
Unit2Sucks
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It's been acknowledged that Rosenstein offered Trump the choice of having the indictments against Russian GRU officers announced before or after his meeting with Putin and Trump choose before.

In addition to blowing up the bootlicker talking points of politically motivated timing for the release of the indictments, it proves two points: (i) Trump's judgment is beyond the pale and (ii) bootlickers are really grasping at any straw they can to discredit an obviously justified investigation.
Another Bear
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sycasey said:


I don't think they are blind to it. They know that Trump is a big problem. Unfortunately, they also know that a large portion of their voter base (at least 1/3, if not more) will follow Trump no matter what, and they are scared of what will happen if they go against him.

Of course, the Republicans had their chance to denounce Trump before he got elected, but they made their choice -- they wanted the power. They wanted to control Congress and get that Supreme Court seat. They went along with it. Now they are facing the consequences.
I agree with your accessment, they know Trump is a problem and they're scared of him. The only thing I can add is I wrote willful blindness. I think they're they're looking the other way on purpose, out of choice and while he does some of the dirty work they want done (scotus).
B.A. Bearacus
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Coats in hot seat after interview by Andrea Mitchell today.

Key quotes (source: Axios):

On Trump inviting Putin to the White House: "That's going to be special."

Coats said he doesn't know what happened during Trump's closed-door meeting with Putin, and asked if it was recorded by the Russians, he said: "That risk is always there."

How Trump prefers his intelligence briefings: "He likes it orally. He likes examples .... We use models. We use charts. We use a number of things."

Coats said the Oval Office meeting between Trump and former Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak and foreign minister Sergey Lavrov, during which Trump shared classified information, was "probably not the best thing to do."

His take on Putin: "Look, I think anybody who thinks that Vladimir Putin doesn't have a stamp on everything that happens in Russia is misinformed. It is very clear that virtually nothing happens there of any kind of consequence that Vladimir Putin doesn't know about or hasn't ordered. I think we're pretty sure about that."

Here's the near hour-long interview. Play this in the background.
bearister
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Based on interviews I saw today of Coats and Wray it is clear they could both care less is they are summarily dismissed. It would be a badge of honor as well as certification they are not traitors. Mattis has gone to ground which makes one wonder if he is organizing The Shadow Government. One thing I feel confident of is that tRump's Nuclear Football is in fact made by Wilson.
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B.A. Bearacus
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BREAKING: Time Magazine announces important correction...
B.A. Bearacus
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mikecohen
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Yogi Bear said:

concordtom said:

bearister said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

bearister said:


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html


Regarding the Jon Chait piece linked above:

Evan McMullin:
"This is quite a substantial, though still measured, piece by @jonathanchait. It's the best summary and assessment of publicly known facts regarding the nature of President Trump's relationship with Moscow so far."

I sent that article to one of my tRumpist friends for review and consideration. His response: "I don't read propaganda." How is that for a dialogue killer.
I can understand that some folks didn't want Hillary.
But why would they want trump?
He was a joke candidate, and I saw NOTHING attractive in him then, and certainly far less now.
Why would people be willing to say, "don't tell me truth, I love this lie"?
Because the country has a lot of dumb racist misogynists. More than I ever suspected until Obama got elected and everybody came out of hiding.
Democrats have to face the fact that, even more powerful than the incipient pervasive racism in this country, Trumpist support him because he is the only political figure who is speaking for them - not that I think it is necessarily sincere, but I do believe it is natural, i.e., he has the same prejudices, the same lack of basic information, and the same attitude in dealing with that "worldview"; and, most importantly (and something very meaningful to conjure with) is that the reason this "left behind" group is so large is that the political system has failed this group.

That is: Democrats (and others who have meaningful political solutions to the gross mal-distribution of wealth - which solutions are good for the whole body politic and the economy) are blocked from doing anything, or very much, to implement such solutions by the strangle-hold that the right wing AND the donor class (without which not enough Democrats could possibly get elected) - through its control of the political narrative and mythos of the country (an extraordinary, albeit entirely evil, accomplishment, since it is built almost entirely on lies), the function of which control is to keep in place both (a) right wing control of the federal and as many other governments as possible, and (b) the horrendous mal-distribution of wealth which is strangling our country.

One is tempted to believe that, because of the original, anti-democratic sins of the structure of the country favoring minority, small state interests, allowing for minority national elections through the Electoral College, and making constitutional change so onerous, the only times in our history that meaningful political and social change have been allowed through the system is because of the paroxystic results of the suppression of meaningful changes for too long a period of time, e.g., the Civil War, the Great Depression, and the Civil Rights Movement.
mikecohen
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Another Bear said:

The Dems finally have something that sticks to Trump, mostly because Trump is incompetent and beholdened to Putin. Hate to bring the red scare crap back but in this case, the irony and need is too much. Dems should throttle the GOP on this. For god sake, it's party over country and basic treason.


Putin, at the post-meeting press conference, made the obvious point that there was no longer anything communistic or solicialistic in Russia - it now being essentially a kleptocracy with a gas pump for an economy.
bearister
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I wonder if Putin finds the talk of Bezos being the richest man in the world amusing?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/amp14480615/vladimir-putin-net-worth/



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_historical_figures
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Another Bear
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mikecohen said:

Another Bear said:

The Dems finally have something that sticks to Trump, mostly because Trump is incompetent and beholdened to Putin. Hate to bring the red scare crap back but in this case, the irony and need is too much. Dems should throttle the GOP on this. For god sake, it's party over country and basic treason.


Putin, at the post-meeting press conference, made the obvious point that there was no longer anything communistic or solicialistic in Russia - it now being essentially a kleptocracy with a gas pump for an economy.
I'm old school...they'll always be Pinko Russkies to me. But you are correct about the gas pump.
bearister
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BearChemist
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Will Hurd, a GOP representative from Texas and a former CIA operative, writes an op-ed that is published on today's NYT.

Trump Is Being Manipulated by Putin. What Should We Do?

The first shot within the castle has been fired.
B.A. Bearacus
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bearister
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I think our citizens that got compromised by Anna Chapman got more bang for their buck.

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blungld
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mikecohen said:

Yogi Bear said:

concordtom said:

bearister said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

bearister said:


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html


Regarding the Jon Chait piece linked above:

Evan McMullin:
"This is quite a substantial, though still measured, piece by @jonathanchait. It's the best summary and assessment of publicly known facts regarding the nature of President Trump's relationship with Moscow so far."

I sent that article to one of my tRumpist friends for review and consideration. His response: "I don't read propaganda." How is that for a dialogue killer.
I can understand that some folks didn't want Hillary.
But why would they want trump?
He was a joke candidate, and I saw NOTHING attractive in him then, and certainly far less now.
Why would people be willing to say, "don't tell me truth, I love this lie"?
Because the country has a lot of dumb racist misogynists. More than I ever suspected until Obama got elected and everybody came out of hiding.
Democrats have to face the fact that, even more powerful than the incipient pervasive racism in this country, Trumpist support him because he is the only political figure who is speaking for them - not that I think it is necessarily sincere, but I do believe it is natural, i.e., he has the same prejudices, the same lack of basic information, and the same attitude in dealing with that "worldview"; and, most importantly (and something very meaningful to conjure with) is that the reason this "left behind" group is so large is that the political system has failed this group.

That is: Democrats (and others who have meaningful political solutions to the gross mal-distribution of wealth - which solutions are good for the whole body politic and the economy) are blocked from doing anything, or very much, to implement such solutions by the strangle-hold that the right wing AND the donor class (without which not enough Democrats could possibly get elected) - through its control of the political narrative and mythos of the country (an extraordinary, albeit entirely evil, accomplishment, since it is built almost entirely on lies), the function of which control is to keep in place both (a) right wing control of the federal and as many other governments as possible, and (b) the horrendous mal-distribution of wealth which is strangling our country.

One is tempted to believe that, because of the original, anti-democratic sins of the structure of the country favoring minority, small state interests, allowing for minority national elections through the Electoral College, and making constitutional change so onerous, the only times in our history that meaningful political and social change have been allowed through the system is because of the paroxystic results of the suppression of meaningful changes for too long a period of time, e.g., the Civil War, the Great Depression, and the Civil Rights Movement.
You raise a good point and the Democrats do need to speak to this group...but not lower themselves to it.

It makes me angry to hear the rationale that is now being spread ("Yeah, but at least we got our tax plan"). This itself is part of the spin and GOP/Trump lie. The tax plan is not salvation. It is not some wonderful thing that balances out some other evil. It too is evil. This so-called tax plan is not invigorating the country and ending income inequality. It is part of corporate/executive/rich/Republican gamesmanship. It is deregulation and profiteering oligarch style. Much of Trump's financial moves create market instability and stock movement--I don't think it's a stretch to believe that there are many who are making a killing on this both selling short and long and perhaps with insider knowledge. The GOP financial reforms are not serving the very people who use it as an excuse for his behavior.

It's an onion of sour layers of GOP dysfunction, lies, and exploitation. Each layer a lie that builds on the last that then tosses a little red meat to feed the outrage the last lie creates: we are party of God (pro-life no gay marriages), we are party of economic prosperity (hey you got a 500 bonus while executives/corporations got millions), we are party of self-reliance (kill the nanny state of actually caring about one another and divert money from the public good to the pockets of the rich--apparently the rich get to have full nannying privileges and that's okay), and we are the party of defense (get guns into the hands of our most imbalanced and angry, and fight wars for oil and profits). It's such a mess that I can't even satire it well. Bottomline they have used faith and patriotism as a shield and lie to perpetrate a 20+ year program of wealth and power redistribution--and they have no shame about it and feel the ends (satisfying their greed and avarice for power) justifies the means (using their low-information, prejudiced constituency).

I hope the Democrats play ethical hardball and show that they can and will truly stand for something better. To end corruption means they have to call themselves out too on their own abuse of power and their base.
mikecohen
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BearChemist said:

Will Hurd, a GOP representative from Texas and a former CIA operative, writes an op-ed that is published on today's NYT.

Trump Is Being Manipulated by Putin. What Should We Do?

The first shot within the castle has been fired.
How can Hurd (who is capable of putting together coherent thoughts) be a Texas Republican congressperson. Perhaps it's because he may have strong Democratic opposition in the upcomeing mid-term election.
BearChemist
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mikecohen said:

BearChemist said:

Will Hurd, a GOP representative from Texas and a former CIA operative, writes an op-ed that is published on today's NYT.

Trump Is Being Manipulated by Putin. What Should We Do?

The first shot within the castle has been fired.
How can Hurd (who is capable of putting together coherent thoughts) be a Texas Republican congressperson. Perhaps it's because he may have strong Democratic opposition in the upcomeing mid-term election.


Hurd is indeed in a swing district. However there are a lot of swing districts at where the GOP incumbents align toward Trump agenda. So I like to give Hurd a little bit of credit, but writing an op-ed should just be a beginning. Hope he can follow through. Given that he is the one who did Facebook live with Beto over their road trip from DC to Texas (or the other way), maybe he's not totally lost.
Another Bear
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Hey at least Hurd has the background to criticize Trump and have some weight. Sure he's running for re-election but he's not looking the other way like many other GOP, who have only spoken out against Trump upon retirement.
Cal88
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68% of Republicans approve Trump's handling of the recent summit in Helsinki, 21% disapprove.
NYCGOBEARS
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Cal88 said:

68% of Republicans approve Trump's handling of the recent summit in Helsinki, 21% disapprove.

Putin is a genius. He's turned the party of patriotism and law and order into the Russian Federation West.
okaydo
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bearister
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Cal88 said:

68% of Republicans approve Trump's handling of the recent summit in Helsinki, 21% disapprove.

Those numbers may be too low:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/397824-nearly-80-percent-of-republicans-support-trump-performance-at-putin
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Another Bear
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bearister said:

Cal88 said:

68% of Republicans approve Trump's handling of the recent summit in Helsinki, 21% disapprove.

Those numbers may be too low:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/397824-nearly-80-percent-of-republicans-support-trump-performance-at-putin
And yet...
Quote:

Overall, the majority of Americans 58 percent disapproved of Trump's handling of the joint press conference.
This is significant because a majority of Americans disapprove of the Helsinki Humiliation. I think it's the first in that a majority disagree, on what is likely a historic event. If the Humilation was the tipping point, then it looks to be downhill from here, regardless if 80% of GOP approve.
bearister
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"Trump tweets this morning: "Looking more & more like the Trump Campaign for President was illegally being spied upon (surveillance) for the political gain of Crooked Hillary Clinton and the DNC. Ask her how that worked out - she did better with Crazy Bernie. Republicans must get tough now. An illegal Scam!" Axios

If tRump gets impeached, this overcooking of the fear and hatred that boils within the veins of the banjo playing, oxy snorting part of his base may result in the National Guard having to put a few of them down. Can California National Guardsman volunteer for out of state duty?
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blungld
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bearister said:

"Trump tweets this morning: "Looking more & more like the Trump Campaign for President was illegally being spied upon (surveillance) for the political gain of Crooked Hillary Clinton and the DNC. Ask her how that worked out - she did better with Crazy Bernie. Republicans must get tough now. An illegal Scam!" Axios

If tRump gets impeached, this overcooking of the fear and hatred that boils within the veins of the banjo playing, oxy snorting part of his base may result in the National Guard having to put a few of them down. Can California National Guardsman volunteer for out of state duty?
I hope that these tweets eventually are part of the hard evidence of obstruction. I think more than anything that bothers me is his willfully lying to the American public.
B.A. Bearacus
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Unit2Sucks
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