OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

bearister
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FBI opened an investigation regarding whether POTUS was working on behalf of Russia:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html
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B.A. Bearacus
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Wonder how they would have settled this in the first 100 years of our country.
Yogi Bear
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bearister said:

FBI opened an investigation regarding whether POTUS was working on behalf of Russia:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html
Dumbest president ever
bearister
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B.A. Bearacus said:


Wonder how they would have settled this in the first 100 years of our country.


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B.A. Bearacus
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blungld
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bearister said:

B.A. Bearacus said:


Wonder how they would have settled this in the first 100 years of our country.



You are my favorite poster on the board and I agree with everything you write...but this might be a little too far. I agree that if Trump is guilty of treason and espionage and conspiracy against the country that we need to really look at capital punishment (which I would both take no pleasure in and be terribly ethically convicted over--I would lean to loss of all assets and life in prison), but I also didn't want to log on this morning to see an image of people hanging. Yikes.
Unit2Sucks
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If Trump is guilty of treason, execution would be too kind a punishment. He should be forced to live out his days in the crappiest prison we can find. I'm talking non-good toilets. All the TVs would be tuned to CNN and he would be forced to eat his pizza without a fork and knife. I would also make sure that all the magazines have Obama on the cover, or perhaps President Pelosi. Finally - it's imperative that a full reckoning of his business failures be made public.
sp4149
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blungld said:

bearister said:

B.A. Bearacus said:


Wonder how they would have settled this in the first 100 years of our country.


You are my favorite poster on the board and I agree with everything you write...but this might be a little too far. I agree that if Trump is guilty of treason and espionage and conspiracy against the country that we need to really look at capital punishment (which I would both take no pleasure in and be terribly ethically convicted over--I would lean to loss of all assets and life in prison), but I also didn't want to log on this morning to see an image of people hanging. Yikes.

I think we can look to the start of WWII in the Pacific.

Pearl Harbor was attacked without warning from the Japanese or Washington.
Admiral Kimmel and General Short were thrown to the wolves. America's outrage fell on Kimmel and Short. They were traitors, it was said; they should be shot! The two were inundated with hate mail and death threats. The press, with its ageless capacity to manufacture villains, stretched the commission's slurs. Even the wives of the commanders were subject to vicious canards.

An hour after Pearl Harbor McArthur was ordered by the War Department to use his Army Air Force to attack the nearest Japanese air bases in Taiwan, he refused. He was ordered to put the Philippines bases on combat status, he refused. The Japanese attacked his bases with relative impunity as they were still not on war alert; the fighters were parked close together on the airfield when the Japanese bombers arrived, delayed several hours by bad weather.

For refusing direct orders from Washington, McArthur was not court martialed. For failure to scramble the air defenses of the Philippines when ordered by Washington nine hours before the Japanese attack he wasn't even censored for his incompetence. McArthur had been on the payroll of the Philippines, and may have had a conflict of interest. Reports of the day indicated he was probably sleeping off a 'drunk' at the time of the attack. He failed to perform his duties at a time of war and became a hero.

If allowed back then, the wrong leaders would have been lynched. I wonder how many times the guilty lynched the innocent.
blungld
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Unit2Sucks said:

If Trump is guilty of treason, execution would be too kind a punishment. He should be forced to live out his days in the crappiest prison we can find. I'm talking non-good toilets. All the TVs would be tuned to CNN and he would be forced to eat his pizza without a fork and knife. I would also make sure that all the magazines have Obama on the cover, or perhaps President Pelosi. Finally - it's imperative that a full reckoning of his business failures be made public.
TRUMP: "I didn't commit treason, but even if I did, I didn't. Besides, treason isn't a crime and I am the greatest treasoner ever. Treason is a good thing, not a bad thing. But I never treasoned. The only treason is the fake news media and the angry Dems and Hillary's emails and Obama...no treason."
bearister
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tRump is not, as defined by statute, a traitor because the US is not at war with Russia.....but I can assure you that tRump is a traitor by the generally accepted meaning of that word:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-has-concealed-details-of-his-face-to-face-encounters-with-putin-from-senior-officials-in-administration/2019/01/12/65f6686c-1434-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0644dc46bcae
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blungld
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bearister said:

tRump is not, as defined by statute, a traitor because the US is not at war with Russia.
Can't a fairly credible legal argument be made for knowingly aiding an enemy who has attacked our country (cyber war) to undermine the nation and her institutions as an act of treason?

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
concordtom
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blungld said:

bearister said:

B.A. Bearacus said:


Wonder how they would have settled this in the first 100 years of our country.



You are my favorite poster on the board and I agree with everything you write...but this might be a little too far. I agree that if Trump is guilty of treason and espionage and conspiracy against the country that we need to really look at capital punishment (which I would both take no pleasure in and be terribly ethically convicted over--I would lean to loss of all assets and life in prison), but I also didn't want to log on this morning to see an image of people hanging. Yikes.
So, then, does that mean I'm elevated to favorite?
Because I decided against posting the photos of Mussolini when I mentioned that trump had that coming to him.
blungld
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You sure you want that booby prize?
concordtom
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blungld said:

You sure you want that booby prize?
Sure, I like boobies!
bearister
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blungld said:

bearister said:

B.A. Bearacus said:


Wonder how they would have settled this in the first 100 years of our country.



You are my favorite poster on the board and I agree with everything you write...




Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
blungld
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concordtom said:

blungld said:

You sure you want that booby prize?
Sure, I like boobies!

dajo9
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blungld said:

bearister said:

tRump is not, as defined by statute, a traitor because the US is not at war with Russia.
Can't a fairly credible legal argument be made for knowingly aiding an enemy who has attacked our country (cyber war) to undermine the nation and her institutions as an act of treason?

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."


Don't need treason. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted of espionage. They were executed.
concordtom
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Works for me!!!
bearister
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dajo9 said:

blungld said:

bearister said:

tRump is not, as defined by statute, a traitor because the US is not at war with Russia.
Can't a fairly credible legal argument be made for knowingly aiding an enemy who has attacked our country (cyber war) to undermine the nation and her institutions as an act of treason?

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."


Don't need treason. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted of espionage. They were executed.


Are you trying to tempt me into posting more photos of the Lincoln assassination conspirators' executions?
dajo9
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bearister said:

dajo9 said:

blungld said:

bearister said:

tRump is not, as defined by statute, a traitor because the US is not at war with Russia.
Can't a fairly credible legal argument be made for knowingly aiding an enemy who has attacked our country (cyber war) to undermine the nation and her institutions as an act of treason?

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."


Don't need treason. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted of espionage. They were executed.


Are you trying to tempt me into posting more photos of the Lincoln assassination conspirators' executions?


I didn't have a problem with the photos
bearister
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-putin-meetings.amp.html


"The day after the two meetings, as Mr. Trump was on Air Force One taking off from Germany heading back to Washington, he telephoned a Times reporter and argued that the Russians were falsely accused of election interference. While he insisted most of the conversation be off the record, he later repeated a few things in public in little-noticed asides.

He said that he raised the election hacking three times and that Mr. Putin denied involvement. But he said Mr. Putin also told him that "if we did, we wouldn't have gotten caught because we're professionals." Mr. Trump said: "I thought that was a good point because they are some of the best in the world" at hacking."
concordtom
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bearister said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-putin-meetings.amp.html


"The day after the two meetings, as Mr. Trump was on Air Force One taking off from Germany heading back to Washington, he telephoned a Times reporter and argued that the Russians were falsely accused of election interference. While he insisted most of the conversation be off the record, he later repeated a few things in public in little-noticed asides.

He said that he raised the election hacking three times and that Mr. Putin denied involvement. But he said Mr. Putin also told him that "if we did, we wouldn't have gotten caught because we're professionals." Mr. Trump said: "I thought that was a good point because they are some of the best in the world" at hacking."

his fat mouth indicates they stole Hillary's server.
My uncle also thinks Russia hacked the election results in certain states to give trump the electoral college win. He thinks the results need to ultimately be annulled.

"Attention attention. The entire era of President Trump is a fraud. We will now spend the next four years unraveling the consequences. In the meantime, please enjoy this video to calm your nerves:"

(I cannot post the video link. Too disturbing.)
blungld
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bearister said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-putin-meetings.amp.html


"The day after the two meetings, as Mr. Trump was on Air Force One taking off from Germany heading back to Washington, he telephoned a Times reporter and argued that the Russians were falsely accused of election interference. While he insisted most of the conversation be off the record, he later repeated a few things in public in little-noticed asides.

He said that he raised the election hacking three times and that Mr. Putin denied involvement. But he said Mr. Putin also told him that "if we did, we wouldn't have gotten caught because we're professionals." Mr. Trump said: "I thought that was a good point because they are some of the best in the world" at hacking."

That's the level of sophisticated intelligence analysis, the so-called gut instincts, of this president?

So the DOJ is political and not to be trusted, but Putin's agenda and honesty is neutral can not be questioned?

Does that mean the Liberal Deep State is forcing him to align with enemy nations and have meetings in secret and appoint cronies and family and hide self-serving real estate deals and tax returns and lie all the time? If one didn't know better that sounds like the Deep State is winning...but the president says he is winning, that he always wins, and that he is the only one to fix America, and he has already fixed it, but it still needs fixing, and he is making America great again, but it's already great and that the Deep State is...wait, what is the situation again?
B.A. Bearacus
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We know exactly how this backpeddling formula goes and will evolve.

kelly09
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concordtom said:

bearister said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-putin-meetings.amp.html


"The day after the two meetings, as Mr. Trump was on Air Force One taking off from Germany heading back to Washington, he telephoned a Times reporter and argued that the Russians were falsely accused of election interference. While he insisted most of the conversation be off the record, he later repeated a few things in public in little-noticed asides.

He said that he raised the election hacking three times and that Mr. Putin denied involvement. But he said Mr. Putin also told him that "if we did, we wouldn't have gotten caught because we're professionals." Mr. Trump said: "I thought that was a good point because they are some of the best in the world" at hacking."

his fat mouth indicates they stole Hillary's server.
My uncle also thinks Russia hacked the election results in certain states to give trump the electoral college win. He thinks the results need to ultimately be annulled.

"Attention attention. The entire era of President Trump is a fraud. We will now spend the next four years unraveling the consequences. In the meantime, please enjoy this video to calm your nerves:"

(I cannot post the video link. Too disturbing.)
You uncle thinks? That is some heavy duty attribution.
concordtom
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kelly09 said:

You uncle thinks? That is some heavy duty attribution.
1. But I didn't tell you who my uncle was! Bam!!

2. Just kidding, but it's better than saying "some people think".

3. Are you going to categorically say that there's no way votes weren't hacked by Russia? I won't.
concordtom
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bearister said:


Are you trying to tempt me into posting more photos of the Lincoln assassination conspirators' executions?
Yes please!
concordtom
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B.A. Bearacus said:

We know exactly how this backpeddling formula goes and will evolve.


I cut Rudy off after 15 seconds. Can't even listen to that scumbag.

You know, I was raised to be honest, I was raised to be humble. I was raised to think about universal good, rather than selfish benefits. Thus, it has been seriously disheartening to me to see this Trump Posse of Idiots parading around and running, er uh "RUINING" our country!

Mussolini!
B.A. Bearacus
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Conservatives, who would the president need to fellate in the middle of 5th Ave. to make you feel that he needs to go asap?
Another Bear
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This guy, who he's trying to flag down?
YMMV.
Have a nice day.
Enjoy the sunshine.
Smoke two joints.
That's what she said.
OBear073akaSMFan
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Unit2Sucks said:

If Trump is guilty of treason, execution would be too kind a punishment. He should be forced to live out his days in the crappiest prison we can find. I'm talking non-good toilets. All the TVs would be tuned to CNN and he would be forced to eat his pizza without a fork and knife. I would also make sure that all the magazines have Obama on the cover, or perhaps President Pelosi. Finally - it's imperative that a full reckoning of his business failures be made public.
I want him executed but only after he sees all of his kids, especially Moron Jr & Jared wind up in jail too along with many of the republican senators who is just as guilty of keeping this corrupt moron in Office.
bearister
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dajo9
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Fruity Rudy always backpedaling
Another Bear
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Looking at Rudy you have to think Trump not only destroyed the GOP but he crapped down their collective throats. To go from America's Mayor to a crackpot loon is one hell of a way to wrap up a career. I guess the pull of authoritarianism is just too great for some fools.
YMMV.
Have a nice day.
Enjoy the sunshine.
Smoke two joints.
That's what she said.
blungld
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The GOP actions under this President are pretty transparently aimed to run amok with deregulation in the background while Trump distracts with his insanity in the foreground. This chaos has allowed them to serve the corporate masters and accomplish much of the most dishonest conservative policies without a spotlight or accountability. When controversy swells, they insulate and protect Trump with sideways talk and appeals to faith, nationalism, guns, and anti-other (gay, liberal, minority, etc) to keep the 30% in line and ready to mob-up if called to hoist the pitchforks.

It's been plain dirty politics of zero accountability and governing to a narrow constituency to hold districts and electoral college results. That's it. The oath of office or the American experiment or the voice of the majority or our collective and historic values matter not one bit, it's just limit the power of opposition and expand income inequality.

So in this light, every illogical act makes "sense" and so does the very real possibility that beyond Trump and his White House there are media members, congress persons, and the GOP itself beholden to foreign/domestic interests for reasons of blackmail or bribery (which in turn becomes blackmail).

There is a very real possibility that the levers of power that run our entire nation are beholden to illicit money and ego--not a few bad actors--but the entire apparatus. It would explain so much of our policy and the propagandized national discourse where voters are convinced of irrational policy that does not serve them. A huge swath of Americans have bought into ideology where screwing others over is the purpose of politics, and government is not aspirational or the source of solutions that move us forward, it is a proving ground for regressive personal beliefs.

Given all of this, the latest acts by the Senate are still almost impossible to comprehend. Even if totally corrupt, how do GOP Senators not also support investigation into Russian interference; how do they not support mandating the Mueller report be public before appointing a new AG; how do they vote for removing sanctions on a Russian oligarch who has just been shown to be part of the conspiracy against our country when a year ago they voted almost unanimously to support this sanction; and how do they remain silent on the shutdown when they themselves voted overwhelming for a budget that would have kept government open?

Partisan outrage aside, there is not one reasonable explanation for these actions--especially the sanctions against Deripaska. Why in the world would America benefit from letting a corrupt oligarch get his money out of the country, right now, before the report goes public, while the entire country is watching the emerging story of collusion and the corrupt relationship between Putin and Trump?

How in the world do they justify it? Have they even tried? Are they all on the take? Why do we allow them to keep getting away with this? When justice finds her way, the retribution needs to be powerful and robust. No mea culpas or just following orders or sliding into the private sector, we must jail every single one of these collaborators and profiteers.
 
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