OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

Another Bear
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Bob should also know what a good "fragging" looks like.

re: GOP, even Mitch the Turtle Boy got a 4F.
YMMV. Have a nice day. Enjoy the sunshine. Smoke two joints. That's what she said.
concordtom
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No surprise re Mitch.
He flat out looks like one big 4F.
-who's never been F'd even once.
concordtom
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bearister said:


...and unlike most Republicans of his generation, he (Mueller) served in Vietnam.
Like John Kerry.
B.A. Bearacus
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concordtom
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Roy Cohn was Gay???

From Wikipedia:

When Cohn brought on G. David Schine as chief consultant to the McCarthy staff, speculation arose that Schine and Cohn had a sexual relationship.[43][44] Speculation about Cohn's sexuality intensified following his death from AIDS in 1986.[3][45] Although some historians have concluded the SchineCohn friendship was platonic,[44][46][47] others state, based on the testimony of friends, that Cohn was gay.[48][49] During the ArmyMcCarthy hearings, Cohn denied having any "special interest" in Schine or being bound to him "closer than to the ordinary friend."[44] Joseph Welch, the Army's attorney in the hearings, made an apparent reference to Cohn's homosexuality. After asking a witness if a photo entered as evidence "came from a pixie", at McCarthy's request, he defined "pixie" as "a close relative of a fairy".[44] Though "pixie" was the name of a camera model name at the time,[50] the comparison to "fairy", a derogatory term for a homosexual man, had clear implications. The people at the hearing recognized the slur and found it amusing; Cohn, however, later called the remark "malicious", "wicked", and "indecent."[44]

In a 2008 article published in The New Yorker magazine, Jeffrey Toobin quotes Roger Stone: "Roy was not gay. He was a man who liked having sex with men. Gays were weak, effeminate. He always seemed to have these young blond boys around. It just wasn't discussed. He was interested in power and access."[51] Stone worked with Cohn beginning with the Reagan campaign during the 1976 Republican Party presidential primaries.
concordtom
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Another Bear said:

concordtom said:

POTUS and first man.


Reports of damning Mueller findings prompt people to consider possibility of 'President Pelosi'

FYI: Pence is Manfort's guy. If Trump goes, Pence has a good chance too.
Pence and trump need to go st the same time. There can be no trump on day1 and Pence on day 3, because Pence will name a new Corrupt VP on day 2, leaving the Corrupt and Sell Your Soul for Power GOP in control.
sycasey
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concordtom said:

Roy Cohn was Gay???

From Wikipedia:

When Cohn brought on G. David Schine as chief consultant to the McCarthy staff, speculation arose that Schine and Cohn had a sexual relationship.[43][44] Speculation about Cohn's sexuality intensified following his death from AIDS in 1986.[3][45] Although some historians have concluded the SchineCohn friendship was platonic,[44][46][47] others state, based on the testimony of friends, that Cohn was gay.[48][49] During the ArmyMcCarthy hearings, Cohn denied having any "special interest" in Schine or being bound to him "closer than to the ordinary friend."[44] Joseph Welch, the Army's attorney in the hearings, made an apparent reference to Cohn's homosexuality. After asking a witness if a photo entered as evidence "came from a pixie", at McCarthy's request, he defined "pixie" as "a close relative of a fairy".[44] Though "pixie" was the name of a camera model name at the time,[50] the comparison to "fairy", a derogatory term for a homosexual man, had clear implications. The people at the hearing recognized the slur and found it amusing; Cohn, however, later called the remark "malicious", "wicked", and "indecent."[44]

In a 2008 article published in The New Yorker magazine, Jeffrey Toobin quotes Roger Stone: "Roy was not gay. He was a man who liked having sex with men. Gays were weak, effeminate. He always seemed to have these young blond boys around. It just wasn't discussed. He was interested in power and access."[51] Stone worked with Cohn beginning with the Reagan campaign during the 1976 Republican Party presidential primaries.


I guess you never saw or read Angels in America.
concordtom
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Or heard of it.
OneKeg
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I am vehemently against the Republican party as currently constituted, and against Trump and his mob-like coterie.

But some of the posts on this board feel like Cal fans who, after several losing seasons, win a conference game or two, and have a lead part-way through another game... and start discussing which they would prefer, the Rose Bowl or the National Championship...

Guys, there's a decent chance Republicans (Trump or not) continue to control most of the US Federal Government for more than the next two years.

Mussolini fell from power eventually, but it took being pummeled in a war in which (I think, don't quote me) half a million or so Italians, military and civilian, died as a direct or indirect result of it. Not to mention millions of other casualties globally. I don't think anything about the next several years is going to come easy.
Yogi Bear
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OneKeg said:

Guys, there's a decent chance Republicans (Trump or not) continue to control most of the US Federal Government for more than the next two years.
I think there's a great likelihood that they will continue to control the Senate. The odds are against them controlling the House or the Presidency after 2020.
concordtom
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I have no flipping idea what this has to do with Roy Cohn, but it sure is a nice departure from despising Trump. I need to get a life!

concordtom
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Yogi Bear said:

OneKeg said:

Guys, there's a decent chance Republicans (Trump or not) continue to control most of the US Federal Government for more than the next two years.
I think there's a great likelihood that they will continue to control the Senate. The odds are against them controlling the House or the Presidency after 2020.
GOP gonna lose all 3.
They have a ton of seats up in 2020.

Edit: WashPost says I could be very wrong.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/politics/2020-senate/?utm_term=.defd4071fbf5
concordtom
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OneKeg said:


But some of the posts on this board feel like Cal fans who, after several losing seasons, win a conference game or two, and have a lead part-way through another game... and start discussing which they would prefer, the Rose Bowl or the National Championship...

Haha, that was funny!
concordtom
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OneKeg said:


Mussolini fell from power eventually,
and was strung up from his feet and hung upside down in the public streets after being beaten to a pulp. Let's just (in nonviolent fantasyland) skip all the rest of what you said and cut to the chase. I agree, that in between part was horrible. Thus the need to fast forward it.
bearister
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tRump might want to take note of what his attorney and mentor, Roy Cohn, said about his client, Senator Joe McCarthy:

" 'I was fully aware of McCarthy's faults, which there were neither few nor minor," Cohn recalled. 'He was impatient, overly aggressive, overly dramatic. He acted on impulse. He tended to sensationalize the evidence he had in order to draw attention to the rock bottom seriousness of the situation. He would neglect to do important homework and consequently would, on occasion, make challengeable statements.' The urge to overstate, to overdramatize, to dominate the news, could be costly, and so it proved to be for McCarthy. The Wisconsin senator, Cohn said, was essentially a salesman. 'He was selling the story of America's peril,' Cohn recalled. 'He knew that he could never hope to convince anybody by delivering a dry, general accounting office type of presentation. In consequence, he stepped up circumstances a notch or two' and in so doing he opened himself to attacks that proved fatal. He oversold, and the customers, the public, tired of the pitch, and the pitchman." Jon Meacham, The Soul of America, Ch. 6, pp.202-203





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Another Bear
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The devil are in the details...and those won't be released or can't be fully corroborated, yet.
YMMV. Have a nice day. Enjoy the sunshine. Smoke two joints. That's what she said.
OneKeg
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Yogi Bear said:

OneKeg said:

Guys, there's a decent chance Republicans (Trump or not) continue to control most of the US Federal Government for more than the next two years.
I think there's a great likelihood that they will continue to control the Senate. The odds are against them controlling the House or the Presidency after 2020.
Maybe, and I hope you are right about the Presidency.

But that's only 2 of the branches. Since the Judicial branch is significantly politicized now, I was including it too, though I understand you could make an argument that the Roberts court will behave independently. A Republican-controlled Senate may continue to not even consider judges nominated by a hypothetical Democratic President, as they did with zero justification for Merrick Garland. And Ruth Bader Ginsberg may be passing on soon (stay strong Ruth!).

As for the Presidency, I am far from convinced that whoever the Democratic nominee is for President is a huge favorite in 2020, though they will probably be a favorite, just as HRC was. It doesn't feel like an impressive set of candidates so far, and they have plenty of time to screw this up still. I will vote for whoever it is since the alternative is Trump and/or a Republican party that is becoming shaped in Trump's kleptocratic, traitorous, white-nationalist image as the never-Trumpers leave or are primaried out of power (or fired).

The House? Anything could happen, but yeah that looks fairly likely to stay Democratic, (mostly) Republican gerrymandering notwithstanding.

So while hoping you are right (except about the Senate), I stand by my statement that there's a decent chance (<50% but >25% I think) that the Republicans hang onto control of the Senate, some "control" of the Supreme Court, and yes, the Presidency (Trump or not).
Another Bear
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OneKeg said:

But some of the posts on this board feel like Cal fans who, after several losing seasons, win a conference game or two, and have a lead part-way through another game... and start discussing which they would prefer, the Rose Bowl or the National Championship...
Sure it might feel like that...but there's a hell of lot more at stake than a football game or fan projection. I'm not for exaggeration but the stakes with Trump are much higher, could get really messy and ugly. I think there was criminal activity and Russian involvement but I don't know how much, etc. However imagine if it's as bad as the worst possibility.

The only luck we have in this regard is the utter incompetence and sheer stupidity of Trump. That said, still waiting for the big news to break.

p.s. I was in the stands during the infamous Cal vs. OSU game...where Cal was the mythical #1 in the country for a quarter, before blowing chunks. After Riley blew chunks...and everyone had their heads in their hands, I heard a voice from the back of section U, "TYPICAL CAL!". Didn't know if I should laugh or cry, or both but most groaned...and agreed.
YMMV. Have a nice day. Enjoy the sunshine. Smoke two joints. That's what she said.
Yogi Bear
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OneKeg said:

Yogi Bear said:

OneKeg said:

Guys, there's a decent chance Republicans (Trump or not) continue to control most of the US Federal Government for more than the next two years.
I think there's a great likelihood that they will continue to control the Senate. The odds are against them controlling the House or the Presidency after 2020.
Maybe, and I hope you are right about the Presidency.

But that's only 2 of the branches. Since the Judicial branch is significantly politicized now, I was including it too, though I understand you could make an argument that the Roberts court will behave independently. A Republican-controlled Senate may continue to not even consider judges nominated by a hypothetical Democratic President, as they did with zero justification for Merrick Garland. And Ruth Bader Ginsberg may be passing on soon (stay strong Ruth!).

As for the Presidency, I am far from convinced that whoever the Democratic nominee is for President is a huge favorite in 2020, though they will probably be a favorite, just as HRC was. It doesn't feel like an impressive set of candidates so far, and they have plenty of time to screw this up still. I will vote for whoever it is since the alternative is Trump and/or a Republican party that is becoming shaped in Trump's kleptocratic, traitorous, white-nationalist image as the never-Trumpers leave or are primaried out of power (or fired).

The House? Anything could happen, but yeah that looks fairly likely to stay Democratic, (mostly) Republican gerrymandering notwithstanding.

So while hoping you are right (except about the Senate), I stand by my statement that there's a decent chance (<50% but >25% I think) that the Republicans hang onto control of the Senate, some "control" of the Supreme Court, and yes, the Presidency (Trump or not).
In regards to the presidency, I think Never Trump will resonate much stronger this time now that they've seen the consequences of a Trump presidency. I don't think people took the threat of him actually winning seriously enough (I plead guilty to this as well). And while nobody that's thrown their hat in right now is necessarily all that exciting, that none of the are named Hillary Clinton means that someone who has broad appeal to women and Hispanics has a chance to lay a claim. And if the Democratic candidate gets a large share of those two groups, it's all over.
Anarchistbear
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Trump's very unpopular. Of course it could change but it hasn't yet. He's been stuck in the low 40's forever. Presidents with this type of approval typically don't get re-elected, plus they lose seats in the midterm which is what happened in the House.

You can argue he got elected with that approval which is true; however he won't again have the good fortune of running against Hillary Clinton, the herpes of American politics,. The Democrats just need to turn out Democrats to win- the Obama/ Trump voter, young people and minorities - all three of whom failed to rally behind Clinton like they did to Obama in battleground states. They should do it with a reasonably likeable candidate who can talk to the future.

Of course all this could change as it did in 2016 as the electorate is pissed off ,our system is totally f$cked up and neither party is likeable. Nominate someone like Biden and there may be a serious third party leftist or the usual apathy. Maybe Bloomberg's ego and $ make him run. Maybe even some delusional goofball like Kasich runs. Fun times.


okaydo
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Anarchistbear said:

Trump's very unpopular. Of course it could change but it hasn't yet. He's been stuck in the low 40's forever. Presidents with this type of approval typically don't get re-elected, plus they lose seats in the midterm which is what happened in the House.

You can argue he got elected with that approval which is true; however he won't again have the good fortune of running against Hillary Clinton, the herpes of American politics,. The Democrats just need to turn out Democrats to win- the Obama/ Trump voter, young people and minorities - all three of whom failed to rally behind Clinton like they did to Obama in battleground states. They should do it with a reasonably likeable candidate who can talk to the future.

Of course all this could change as it did in 2016 as the electorate is pissed off ,our system is totally f$cked up and neither party is likeable. Nominate someone like Biden and there may be a serious third party leftist or the usual apathy. Maybe Bloomberg's ego and $ make him run. Maybe even some delusional goofball like Kasich runs. Fun times.




Trump has been the No. 1 story for 3 1/2 years now. By the next election, it will be nearly 5 1/2 years, and the electorate will be asked, "Do you want another 4 years of this guy?"

A lot of Trump supporters love the chaos he provides.

A lot of people also didn't care about him being elected because they don't think it matters who's in office.

And yet....
Anarchistbear
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Trump is a master entertainer. His antics against the media, politicians and the posers of the "resistance" IMO are much more successful and funnier than twitter world imagines. And yet..
dajo9
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Expect more Buzz feed type misdirects. Planting believable but false stories in the media to discredit the truth is a rich tradition on the right.
B.A. Bearacus
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"The only thing that explains Carr issuing such an unprecedented order is if Cohen's ability to testify on the stand must be preserved.

Robert Mueller has the unenviable task of needing to sustain as much credibility for a bunch of serial liars as possible, starting with Michael Cohen. Buzzfeed's story whether generally true or erroneous on details about Trump Organization witnesses or totally wrong threatened that effort."
blungld
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sycasey said:

concordtom said:

Roy Cohn was Gay???

From Wikipedia:

When Cohn brought on G. David Schine as chief consultant to the McCarthy staff, speculation arose that Schine and Cohn had a sexual relationship.[43][44] Speculation about Cohn's sexuality intensified following his death from AIDS in 1986.[3][45] Although some historians have concluded the SchineCohn friendship was platonic,[44][46][47] others state, based on the testimony of friends, that Cohn was gay.[48][49] During the ArmyMcCarthy hearings, Cohn denied having any "special interest" in Schine or being bound to him "closer than to the ordinary friend."[44] Joseph Welch, the Army's attorney in the hearings, made an apparent reference to Cohn's homosexuality. After asking a witness if a photo entered as evidence "came from a pixie", at McCarthy's request, he defined "pixie" as "a close relative of a fairy".[44] Though "pixie" was the name of a camera model name at the time,[50] the comparison to "fairy", a derogatory term for a homosexual man, had clear implications. The people at the hearing recognized the slur and found it amusing; Cohn, however, later called the remark "malicious", "wicked", and "indecent."[44]

In a 2008 article published in The New Yorker magazine, Jeffrey Toobin quotes Roger Stone: "Roy was not gay. He was a man who liked having sex with men. Gays were weak, effeminate. He always seemed to have these young blond boys around. It just wasn't discussed. He was interested in power and access."[51] Stone worked with Cohn beginning with the Reagan campaign during the 1976 Republican Party presidential primaries.


I guess you never saw or read Angels in America.
Coolest theater experience ever was seeing Angels in the one day 7-hour marathon with Pacino as Cohn. Incredible play.
bearister
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After just watching Rudy Giuliani on the Sunday Talkies, I have decided there is absolutely method to the apparent madness of rolling that buffoon out as the mouthpiece of the Administration. His nonresponsive word salad answers are equal part pre dementia and planned quadruple talk. By the time his spew ends you are pretty sure you have just witnessed something resembling Abbott and Costello's Who's on 1st routine. What better way to defend the indefensible? Charles Manson's trial attorney employed the same tactics, resulting in one of the longer murder trials of all time.....but ole Charlie went down anyway.
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B.A. Bearacus
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concordtom
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bearister said:

After just watching Rudy Giuliani on the Sunday Talkies, I have decided there is absolutely method to the apparent madness of rolling that buffoon out as the mouthpiece of the Administration. His nonresponsive word salad answers are equal part pre dementia and planned quadruple talk. By the time his spew ends you are pretty sure you have just witnessed something resembling Abbott and Costello's Who's on 1st routine. What better way to defend the indefensible? Charles Manson's trial attorney employed the same tactics, resulting in one of the longer murder trials of all time.....but ole Charlie went down anyway.
I noticed him prefacing as a way to stay out of jail:

"As far as I know..."
Then made claims that Trump never did this or that. He does that all the time, and the pattern is noticeable.

Next time he says, "As far as I know" just ignore anything else he says afterward. It is propaganda as good as a lie.
concordtom
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I am both angry and happy.

Angry: I want to punch these idiots, or at least knock their stupid MAGA hats to the ground.
Happy: these fools got the opportunity to get out of their bigoted hometown in Kentucky to learn some valuable lessons in DC. I'd expect their parents will give them hell and that they are currently hiding their heads in tears and shame.

What do you think? Will they return home as heroes? Or villains?

B.A. Bearacus
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Hehe. Concord, this thread is closed till after Cal vs. Saints.
concordtom
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Cool, you can jump on it then!
concordtom
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My MAGA cousin's wife in TX posted on Facebook that the covington catholic kids were getting the shaft, that CNN reported them as villains, but in fact the black guys were vulgar (they were) and CNN never reported on that. Also, claims the native guy went into the face of the Covington kids. Looks to be true.

But I say the kids played a role just by being there and engaging as they did. Country mouse went to the big city and played 3-card Monty, bought a Rolex for $10, and got splooge on the shoes after taking in the peep show.

Move along, boys, nothing to see here.
They grew up a bit.
concordtom
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sycasey
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concordtom said:

I'd expect their parents will give them hell and that they are currently hiding their heads in tears and shame.
Or . . . not.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/maga-hat-donald-trump-native-american-covington-catholic-nathan-phillips-black-muslims-a8737186.html
sycasey
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okaydo said:

Anarchistbear said:

Trump's very unpopular. Of course it could change but it hasn't yet. He's been stuck in the low 40's forever. Presidents with this type of approval typically don't get re-elected, plus they lose seats in the midterm which is what happened in the House.

You can argue he got elected with that approval which is true; however he won't again have the good fortune of running against Hillary Clinton, the herpes of American politics,. The Democrats just need to turn out Democrats to win- the Obama/ Trump voter, young people and minorities - all three of whom failed to rally behind Clinton like they did to Obama in battleground states. They should do it with a reasonably likeable candidate who can talk to the future.

Of course all this could change as it did in 2016 as the electorate is pissed off ,our system is totally f$cked up and neither party is likeable. Nominate someone like Biden and there may be a serious third party leftist or the usual apathy. Maybe Bloomberg's ego and $ make him run. Maybe even some delusional goofball like Kasich runs. Fun times.




Trump has been the No. 1 story for 3 1/2 years now. By the next election, it will be nearly 5 1/2 years, and the electorate will be asked, "Do you want another 4 years of this guy?"

A lot of Trump supporters love the chaos he provides.

A lot of people also didn't care about him being elected because they don't think it matters who's in office.

And yet....

And yet . . . he's super unpopular and not getting better.



Trump may well win reelection, but after the midterms and seeing his poll performance for the last 2 years, I'm not worried that he possesses any special magical pull with the electorate that makes him immune to standard political gravity. A Democrat who runs a good campaign should be able to beat him.
 
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