OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

192,349 Views | 3122 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by BearForce2
Another Bear
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bearister
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...and we all know what a Brain Trust the Mad King's "team" is.

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bearister
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Bump
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Another Bear
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Wow...from the NY Times...Manafort Breached Plea Deal by Repeatedly Lying, Mueller Says

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/26/us/politics/mueller-paul-manafort-cooperation.html
Quote:

WASHINGTON Paul Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, repeatedly lied to federal investigators in breach of a plea agreement he signed two months ago, the special counsel's office said in a court filing late on Monday.

Prosecutors working for the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, said Mr. Manafort's "crimes and lies" about "a variety of subject matters" relieve them of all promises they made to him in the plea agreement. But under the terms of the agreement, Mr. Manafort cannot withdraw his guilty plea.

Defense lawyers disagreed that Mr. Manafort has violated the deal. In the same filing, they said that Mr. Manafort has met repeatedly with the special counsel's office and "believes he has provided truthful information."

But given the impasse between the two sides, they asked Judge Amy Berman Jackson of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia to set a sentencing date for Mr. Manafort, who has been in solitary confinement in a detention center in Alexandria, Va., since June.

The dramatic development in the 11th hour of Mr. Manafort's case is a fresh sign of the prosecutors' aggressive approach in investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential race and whether anyone in the Trump campaign knew about or assisted Moscow's effort.



The guy is 70, in solidarity confinement. He's either going to die in the clink or the Russkies off him.
bearister
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Methinks he dummied up because the Eastern Promises crew told him they would go into foot chopping, plastic wrapping, body dumping in reservoir mode for Paulie Walnuts and his family if he ratted. He will probably have the juice with the bulls to eat well in the hoosegow, however.

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Another Bear
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The basic take aways:

A) Manafort is incredibly stupid, can't shake the mentality of a lifelong criminal so he lies.
B) He's angling at a pardon.
C) He's covering up something BIG.
D) Mueller likely knows why/how he's lying.
E) Mueller might present the info (or a variation) to the public.
Another Bear
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B.A. Bearacus
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Nice quote (from Plutarch, not Mushroom D):

blungld
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Another Bear said:




It seems to me that people avoid stating the obvious. The most reasonable speculation based on the rampant lying and almost bizarre levels of denial of truth/reality, not to mention the wide use of disinformation and collusion with FOX and other conservative media outlets, is that the corruption is is hugely wide spread and that Russians, Saudis, and Chinese have very damning information on the President and members of Congress, administration, and the media.

People like Manafort are behaving exactly like caporegimes who are either protecting their hidden stashes, their higher ups in some semblance of Omerta, or fear for their lives. The Trump organization has been affiliated with organized crime for decades and everything this administration does looks exactly like mafia and totalitarian behavior. So why isn't the public discussion much more frank and direct about this administration being a crime family? And when we witness people behaving completely illogical just say that a plausible explanation is fear of being killed or spreading disinformation to protect the family.

We hear this far too infrequently.

This crime family conducts itself on a daily basis in terms of cover up, blackmail, obstruction, and yes collusion with foreign governments for profit. This seems so patently obvious and yet the MSM keeps hunching their shoulders like what is going on here? Why all the lies? This doesn't make sense? Let's debate this for hours. The soft peddling of blatant abuse of power and criminal activity works in the service of this crime family and its time for everyone to call all of them on their BS and go after the sonsof*****es. Stop letting them exploit Patriotism and the inherent Christian charity of Americans for their own dirty profit and exploitation of law. We need to stop acting like suckers (using the crime family vernacular) and show no mercy in the prosecution and eventual sentencing.
bearister
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John Kelly and James Mattis are not serving our country because their testimony alone would support a removal of the Mad King under the 25th Amendment. If those two stepped up, dozens of others in the West Wing would follow suit to seal the deal. My guess is tRump has Eric tasting his food.
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bearister
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Alright lads, break out your chalkboards because I am only going to explain this once and there will be a quiz:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/23/us/politics/trump-mueller-russia.html

I'm thinking the execution option under the treason statute is the most appropriate:

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Yogi Bear
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blungld said:

Another Bear said:




It seems to me that people avoid stating the obvious. The most reasonable speculation based on the rampant lying and almost bizarre levels of denial of truth/reality, not to mention the wide use of disinformation and collusion with FOX and other conservative media outlets, is that the corruption is is hugely wide spread and that Russians, Saudis, and Chinese have very damning information on the President and members of Congress, administration, and the media.

People like Manafort are behaving exactly like caporegimes who are either protecting their hidden stashes, their higher ups in some semblance of Omerta, or fear for their lives. The Trump organization has been affiliated with organized crime for decades and everything this administration does looks exactly like mafia and totalitarian behavior. So why isn't the public discussion much more frank and direct about this administration being a crime family? And when we witness people behaving completely illogical just say that a plausible explanation is fear of being killed or spreading disinformation to protect the family.

We hear this far too infrequently.

This crime family conducts itself on a daily basis in terms of cover up, blackmail, obstruction, and yes collusion with foreign governments for profit. This seems so patently obvious and yet the MSM keeps hunching their shoulders like what is going on here? Why all the lies? This doesn't make sense? Let's debate this for hours. The soft peddling of blatant abuse of power and criminal activity works in the service of this crime family and its time for everyone to call all of them on their BS and go after the sonsof*****es. Stop letting them exploit Patriotism and the inherent Christian charity of Americans for their own dirty profit and exploitation of law. We need to stop acting like suckers (using the crime family vernacular) and show no mercy in the prosecution and eventual sentencing.
Criminals tend to be smarter though. At least if they want to stay in business.
prospeCt
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/2018/11/24/how-gibraltar-almost-stopped-brexit-deal/?noredirect=on

https://www.alternet.org/bruce-springsteen-takes-damaged-trump-his-ugly-effort-divide-nation-simply-crime-against-humanity


https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/chuck-muncie-of-the-california-golden-bears-runs-against-duncan-of-picture-id168785434?s=612x612
Another Bear
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Trump Says Manafort Pardon 'Not Off the Table' After Plea Deal Dies
Quote:

  • Pardons won't be considered until inquiry ends, Giuliani says
  • Democrat Warner sees possibility of 'blatant abuse of power'

blungld
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Another Bear said:

Trump Says Manafort Pardon 'Not Off the Table' After Plea Deal Dies
Quote:

  • Pardons won't be considered until inquiry ends, Giuliani says
  • Democrat Warner sees possibility of 'blatant abuse of power'




How can any sane person stand by a leader who would issue a pardon in this situation? To a person he says he barely knew, to a person who would appear to hold key incriminating information, to a person who is admittedly guilty, and for whom there is no legitimate political purpose or public outcry?

This is 100% out in the open cover up, obstruction, tampering, and admission of guilt. There should be no spin in the world or tribal loyalty that can smooth over this abuse of power and it should be cause for immediate impeachment...even playing with it aloud.

The GOP is completely a lost and corrupted operation.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
Yogi Bear
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blungld said:

Another Bear said:

Trump Says Manafort Pardon 'Not Off the Table' After Plea Deal Dies
Quote:

  • Pardons won't be considered until inquiry ends, Giuliani says
  • Democrat Warner sees possibility of 'blatant abuse of power'




How can any sane person stand by a leader who would issue a pardon in this situation? To a person he says he barely knew, to a person who would appear to hold key incriminating information, to a person who is admittedly guilty, and for whom there is no legitimate political purpose or public outcry?

This is 100% out in the open cover up, obstruction, tampering, and admission of guilt. There should be no spin in the world or tribal loyalty that can smooth over this abuse of power and it should be cause for immediate impeachment...even playing with it aloud.

The GOP is completely a lost and corrupted operation.
Your post made me do some research on the Nixon pardon. Interestingly, the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage was awarded to Ford in 2001 for his pardon. In presenting the award to Ford, Ted Kennedy said that he had initially been opposed to the pardon of Nixon, but later stated that history had proven Ford to have made the correct decision.
blungld
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Yogi Bear said:

Your post made me do some research on the Nixon pardon. Interestingly, the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage was awarded to Ford in 2001 for his pardon. In presenting the award to Ford, Ted Kennedy said that he had initially been opposed to the pardon of Nixon, but later stated that history had proven Ford to have made the correct decision.


Interesting. Did history prove Ford correct? I don't think history would prove Trump correct for trying to pardon his way out of an investigation and the part he and his team played in subverting American democracy with foreign agents.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
Another Bear
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I think history proved Ford right on pardoning Nixon but it sure didn't seem like it at the time, or for a long time. The thing is Nixon did his part by resigning and going into exile. He was also vilified enough, made a pariah, a traitor. Nixon's crimes were internal to the U.S. He got caught regarding obstruction of justice, not some crazy Russkie hacking and money scheme.

Trump won't go away so easy, nor will he resign. Not sure he can be shamed. The media also will cover him because he makes them money. Also I'm not sure letting Trump "off" is good for the country if there was foreign dark money and interference/spying...fccking with democracy.

The best thing for the U.S. would be to uncover his crimes and create legislation to fix it, fix cyber security,..then he passes away, for whatever reason. I don't think he can be shamed and in fact might be mentally ill. We need to know what happened, who the players were. For god sake, the Russians never left home to hack the election. Have to stop that.

His children and associates however should be chased down and made to do hard time. That's the only way to stop white collar crime in the U.S.

Yogi Bear
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Trump may get impeached, but he certainly won't be convicted. The people will have to vote him out.
bearister
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Can you imagine the horror of being a criminal defense attorney with a client that is facing serious criminal charges, who is not very bright, is incapable of memorizing and regurgitating even simple canned responses, and who continually talks to the press on live TV giving spontaneous answers to questions that are further implicating him? Welcome to the Mad King's legal team.

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Anarchistbear
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Yogi Bear said:

Trump may get impeached, but he certainly won't be convicted. The people will have to vote him out.


Yes. Impeachment without conviction is a terrible strategy. Also, why would you impeach someone you could beat?
Anarchistbear
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The Nixon pardon was a mistake. Either you are above the law or not. And for this country elites are always above the law.

The same argument is always advanced- " we need to move on, we don't want to throw the country in turmoil." So, our leaders are never accountable or punished.. Vietnam? An illegal war in Iraq? Torture? Bankers bringing the country to its knees. Nothing is going to happen to Trump. It's the same.
BearChemist
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B.A. Bearacus
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B.A. Bearacus
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Another Bear
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Whoa, Colbert breaks things down quickly, more concisely than broadcast news. It's also funnier.


B.A. Bearacus
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Another Bear
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Indeed...looking at the news this morning, all indications are Trump is ready to blow...and now a pee-pee blow but a full it's over. Cohen pleas, Wikileaks and Manafort/Stone...and this weird stuff...

Donald Trump Pulls Mysterious Vanishing Act, Abruptly Leaving Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony Without Notice

Trump abruptly cancels planned Putin meeting

Methinks the jig is up. But alas, it's only December. Real fireworks and powder keg happens when Dems take the House.

B.A. Bearacus
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The WSJ knows the deal. From today:

"Corrections & Amplifications
Vladimir Putin is president of Russia. An editing mistake erroneously identified him as Vladimir Trump in an earlier version of this article. (Nov. 29)"
bearister
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Now that the Mad King is south of the border, he should just keep running like other criminals have done in the past.

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Another Bear
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He said dominoes.
bearister
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" Prosecutors ethically can't let a witness testify or plea to things they don't believe are true. So remember that everything Michael Cohen is saying in court, or pleading guilty to doing on paper, has been combed over for corroboration.
If Cohen is standing up in court and saying Donald Trump ordered him to do something, prosecutors aren't going just off his word. They have independent corroboration. Remember all those emails and telephones seized in the April raid on Cohen's office? We haven't seen any of that come out yet." Axios
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blungld
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My favorite "it sounds clever but it's dumb" Republican speaking point is "an investigation in search of a crime."

Not only is it factually incorrect, there was evidence, and the investigation followed the evidence as outlined in the order, but EVERY investigation is in search of a crime. Boy GOP, you really discredited the entire witch hunt with that dumb-enough-for-the-base slogan.

I am coining an expression for Trump and his entire band of enablers who believe in a Clinton/Obama Deep State; they are the Shallow State: superficial in their reason, values, and all surface in everything--even in their committing of crimes in plain view.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
bearister
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One of the better summaries:

https://www.apnews.com/e26846d6068c4e98a29783bbb451c9e0?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top
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B.A. Bearacus
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