OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

195,524 Views | 3122 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by BearForce2
Another Bear
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Lots of reports Dotard Donnie Mushroom Nationalist is starting to panic. The walls are closing in. How he left the stage at the G20 suggests he's lost it and the Dems haven't even taken the House yet.

Yeah, get your popcorn.
golden sloth
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Another Bear said:

Lots of reports Dotard Donnie Mushroom Nationalist is starting to panic. The walls are closing in. How he left the stage at the G20 suggests he's lost it and the Dems haven't even taken the House yet.

Yeah, get your popcorn.
Its our government, I don't want to get the popcorn to watch a mess involving our government (though I do want Trump out). Boring but functional is my ideal version of government.
Another Bear
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golden sloth said:

Another Bear said:

Lots of reports Dotard Donnie Mushroom Nationalist is starting to panic. The walls are closing in. How he left the stage at the G20 suggests he's lost it and the Dems haven't even taken the House yet.

Yeah, get your popcorn.
Its our government, I don't want to get the popcorn to watch a mess involving our government (though I do want Trump out). Boring but functional is my ideal version of government.
I agree good government is often boring because it's mostly everyday business that doesn't require drama. With Trump, that's not the case and I don't believe he'll go quietly, or easily. I don't wish to see a mess but that's a real possibility given what we know now: Russian, Saudi dark money, wikileaks, collusion, etc. That said, witness history as a way to help prevent it later.

On that note...

House Democrats unveil their first bill in the majority: a sweeping anti-corruption proposal
Quote:

Democrats will take up voting rights, campaign finance reform, and a lobbying crackdown all in their first bill of the year.
B.A. Bearacus
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sycasey
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Another Bear
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Not ironically, that might be close to what's going in the White House right now. Hilarious video.

Man that Hitler in the bunker clip has gotten so much mileage.
bearister
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Captain Mueller preparing end game:

https://news.yahoo.com/mueller-preparing-end-game-russia-investigation-225720798.html
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Another Bear
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Yup, Mueller is going to drop the Manafort memo to the public...on FRIDAY. Get ready for a weekend of Dotard Donnie Mushroom Nationalist's twitter tantrums.

Mueller is about to have his say -- in a big way
Quote:

Mueller is due to file that sentencing memo by Friday, December 7, and it promises to be a barnburner. Mueller has promised to lay it all out: the specifics of Manafort's lies and the proof establishing the truth of the underlying matters. We do not yet know specifically what Manafort lied about, but we will learn this week.



Mueller spokesman says Manafort memo will be made public

The talk is Mueller has the goods on Manafort and Trump. Merry Christmas, we're going to get an early present. Dotard however is going to get a lump of coal.
Another Bear
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Word is Mueller is going after the Trump Family Criminal enterprise.

Also, supposedly Manafort offered to help the Ecuadoreans get rid of Assange...but then Mueller got him.
bearister
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tRump's scams are catching up with him.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/04/donald-trump-russia-robert-mueller-legal-trouble?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

"Trump often seems to be the only one who believes his own lies, and since he and his children don't seem to grasp that the scamming and cheating that got them through the dirty world of New York City real estate doesn't work as well on the global stage.

He has lived his life in a world without consequences his father's money smoothed the way for a life in which he made messes and others cleaned them up." Rebecca Solnit, The Guardian
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bearister
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OBear073akaSMFan
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I think if this leads to the downfall of the Moron..I would be okay with a reward for Flynn. More reward if they bring down the entire Trump's criminal empire!
Anarchistbear
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Michael Flynn leading "lock her up"chants. Priceless

Another Bear
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The stuff I heard from DC is Flynn is a complete nut job loose cannon. But hey, he came clean and delivered the goods, likely for the better of the country. I think his no prison time is a deal partly given his military services, and as a juxtaposition of what Manafort will get (life). Have to trust Mueller on this one. On Friday we find out more.
blungld
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Just look at where we are in this thing, and the outrage and disbelief expressed by Trump supporters on the threads here over a year ago.

As predicted, they kept back tracking their positions, then started minimizing various evidence of crimes and infractions, then moved to whatboutism, and then slunk off altogether. Where are the Trump supporters now to step forward now and say I was wrong--maybe my news sources are misinformation or maybe my bias needs to be looked at because I was obviously in denial?

Will they learn...or will they just dig in be madder at Liberals for showing them the truth? Does ego and loyalty continue to govern their thinking?

Would be great if the compromise and healing came from them, rather than Liberals having to reach out to them and always be the ones taking the high road.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
bearister
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The Mad King has no plan to counter Captain Mueller's report:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/577417/

Mueller's investigation ... has been remarkably focused and consistent straight through zeroing in on five distinct investigative avenues," Garrett M. Graff writes in WIRED:

"[M]oney laundering and Russian-linked business deals."

The "Russian government's cyberattack on the DNC, other entities, and state-level voting systems."

Russia's "related online information influence operations, by the Internet Research Agency."

"[T]he sketchy contacts by Trump campaign and transition officials with Russia."

The "question of whether Trump himself, or others, actively tried to obstruct justice by impeding the investigation of the above."

"A sixth investigative avenue was opened this spring by federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York, where Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to violating campaign finance laws by paying hush money to Stormy Daniels and others which he says occurred at Trump's instruction." Axios
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offshorebear
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blungld said:

Just look at where we are in this thing, and the outrage and disbelief expressed by Trump supporters on the threads here over a year ago.

As predicted, they kept back tracking their positions, then started minimizing various evidence of crimes and infractions, then moved to whatboutism, and then slunk off altogether. Where are the Trump supporters now to step forward now and say I was wrong--maybe my news sources are misinformation or maybe my bias needs to be looked at because I was obviously in denial?

Will they learn...or will they just dig in be madder at Liberals for showing them the truth? Does ego and loyalty continue to govern their thinking?

Would be great if the compromise and healing came from them, rather than Liberals having to reach out to them and always be the ones taking the high road.


They will dig in even harder. They have done so, ignoring all evidence, fact, reason for 5 decades now. Prison sentences and disgrace of their leaders has not and will not break the spell. I think only complete systemic economic and societal ruin could, and even if we all found ourselves enslaved by Chinese robots or wandering a post-apocalyptic hellscape in 20 years can you just imagine these people avoiding any form of introspection and continuing to blame others for their own demise? I can
sycasey
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offshorebear said:

blungld said:

Just look at where we are in this thing, and the outrage and disbelief expressed by Trump supporters on the threads here over a year ago.

As predicted, they kept back tracking their positions, then started minimizing various evidence of crimes and infractions, then moved to whatboutism, and then slunk off altogether. Where are the Trump supporters now to step forward now and say I was wrong--maybe my news sources are misinformation or maybe my bias needs to be looked at because I was obviously in denial?

Will they learn...or will they just dig in be madder at Liberals for showing them the truth? Does ego and loyalty continue to govern their thinking?

Would be great if the compromise and healing came from them, rather than Liberals having to reach out to them and always be the ones taking the high road.


They will dig in even harder. They have done so, ignoring all evidence, fact, reason for 5 decades now. Prison sentences and disgrace of their leaders has not and will not break the spell. I think only complete systemic economic and societal ruin could, and even if we all found ourselves enslaved by Chinese robots or wandering a post-apocalyptic hellscape in 20 years can you just imagine these people avoiding any form of introspection and continuing to blame others for their own demise? I can
The only real solution is to outnumber and outvote these people.
B.A. Bearacus
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Sounds like SDNY wants Cohen to do around four years in the slammer.

bearister
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SDNY Cohen filing:
https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2018/12/07/e3e0f7e0-dfbb-4b14-a1cf-654b9935f9d5.pdf
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concordtom
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Wow, this guy Martin Brodel is NUTS
I didn't know they actually existed.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCKWkoasaJMtC8bB1vq0AG8Q
Another Bear
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4 or 5 years seems fair. He wasn't a saint and he shouldn't get off like Flynn (who ratted out a lot of people.) Given all Cohen has done, I'd say 4-5 is a good deal. He'll still have a life afterwards.
bearister
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Mueller sentencing memo for Cohen:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5453418-Mueller-Cohen-filing.html
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B.A. Bearacus
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bearister
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If Pence goes down with the Mad King then by order of succession Nancy Pelosi will become POTUS. The Deplorables that act up will be shot down in the street like dogs by the National Guard.
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Another Bear
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bearister said:

If Pence goes down with the Mad King then by order of succession Nancy Pelosi will become POTUS. The Deplorables that act up will be shot down in the street like dogs by the National Guard.
Pence looks to be indicted and go down because he was part of the transition team, and he's tied to Paul Manafort, convicted felon.
Another Bear
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Trump committed felonies. His only cover right now is he's POTUS.
bearister
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Another Bear said:

bearister said:

If Pence goes down with the Mad King then by order of succession Nancy Pelosi will become POTUS. The Deplorables that act up will be shot down in the street like dogs by the National Guard.
Pence looks to be indicted and go down because he was part of the transition team, and he's tied to Paul Manafort, convicted felon.


DO you think the National Guard would take a pensioner volunteer? I can man a .50 cal.

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B.A. Bearacus
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This is how FoxNews.com is framing today's news right now for their audience of brainless, amoral zombies:

blungld
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B.A. Bearacus said:

This is how FoxNews.com is framing today's news right now for their audience of brainless, amoral zombies:



There needs to be legal consequence for propaganda like this. There needs to be a "news" license that can be revoked and criminal accountability for KNOWINGLY deceiving the American public. This is so destructive for so many Americans.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
offshorebear
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sycasey said:

offshorebear said:

blungld said:

Just look at where we are in this thing, and the outrage and disbelief expressed by Trump supporters on the threads here over a year ago.

As predicted, they kept back tracking their positions, then started minimizing various evidence of crimes and infractions, then moved to whatboutism, and then slunk off altogether. Where are the Trump supporters now to step forward now and say I was wrong--maybe my news sources are misinformation or maybe my bias needs to be looked at because I was obviously in denial?

Will they learn...or will they just dig in be madder at Liberals for showing them the truth? Does ego and loyalty continue to govern their thinking?

Would be great if the compromise and healing came from them, rather than Liberals having to reach out to them and always be the ones taking the high road.


They will dig in even harder. They have done so, ignoring all evidence, fact, reason for 5 decades now. Prison sentences and disgrace of their leaders has not and will not break the spell. I think only complete systemic economic and societal ruin could, and even if we all found ourselves enslaved by Chinese robots or wandering a post-apocalyptic hellscape in 20 years can you just imagine these people avoiding any form of introspection and continuing to blame others for their own demise? I can
The only real solution is to outnumber and outvote these people.


Exactly right.
Unit2Sucks
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blungld said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

This is how FoxNews.com is framing today's news right now for their audience of brainless, amoral zombies:



There needs to be legal consequence for propaganda like this. There needs to be a "news" license that can be revoked and criminal accountability for KNOWINGLY deceiving the American public. This is so destructive for so many Americans.
I can't tell if you're parodying Trump or being serious. There is a police for the media - it's called the media.
concordtom
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Unit2Sucks said:

blungld said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

This is how FoxNews.com is framing today's news right now for their audience of brainless, amoral zombies:



There needs to be legal consequence for propaganda like this. There needs to be a "news" license that can be revoked and criminal accountability for KNOWINGLY deceiving the American public. This is so destructive for so many Americans.
I can't tell if you're parodying Trump or being serious. There is a police for the media - it's called the media.
I get what you are saying. Freedom of speech and all.
But with citizens united, special interests can amplify their voice, and regular folks will not know what's what. The OP has a point. What to do?
B.A. Bearacus
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To wit (compliments of David Rothkopf):

So we know this, Russian government representatives reached out to the Trump campaign in 2015 and undertook multiple initiatives and had multiple points and series of contacts with Team Trump for the next couple years.

It's not just the Trump Tower meeting. It's not just the interactions with Wikileaks. It's not just the Russian ties to Cambridge Analytica. It's not just Konstantin Kiliminik, a Russian agent working hand in hand with campaign chair Paul Manafort.

It's not just the ties between Flynn and the Russians. it's not just the links between the Russians and Eric Prince through the meeting in the Seychelles and beyond that. It's not just the ties of Wilbur Ross. It's not just the Trump Organization dealings with Russia.

It's not just Jared Kushner's dealings with Russia. It's not just Kushner and Flynn's dealing with Kislyak during the campaign. It's not just the candidate Trump asking for Russian help. It's not just the GRU hacking for which indictments have already taken place.

We can go on. But let's not stop before we discuss the many benefits the Russians delivered to Trump via hacking, the dumping of files, the manipulation of social media and other avenues...all to support Trump over Clinton. Nor should we fail to discuss the benefits Trump...

...offered the Russians since he gained power. There was his covering up their hacking and his efforts to slow investigations of it. There was his denying the conclusions of the intelligence community about the Russians. There were the talks between Flynn and the Russians...

...about waiving sanctions. There were the meetings with Trump when he was president when he handed over classified information to the Russians. There were whatever promises or concessions were made in Helsinki. There was a pattern of placating the Russians or...

...failing to enforce sanctions for months and months. In other words, there was plenty of quid and plenty of quo ($50 million penthouse apartments and the promise of big deals or financing benefits aside).

From the outreach to Cohen to just the first months of the admin we can count more than a dozen separate avenues of connection at the highest level. In any normal campaign or administration, just one would set off alarm bells and have the president calling the FBI into action.

But instead, in addition to those dozen avenues, the offers that were explicitly or tacitly accepted, benefits to both sides & the overt betrayal of the U.S. to advance the political or economic interests of Trump and those close to him, we have the president obstructing justice.

Actively obstructing. Threatening to fire all those getting closer to the truth. Lying and lying and lying some more and urging staff to lie and witness tampering and so on.

This is not a case of possible collusion. This is sweeping, multi-layered, high level conspiracy led by Vladimir Putin and the Russian intelligence community and involving the active cooperation and complicity of a man who was a candidate for president and then president...

...as well as his entire team. This is the biggest scandal in the history of the American presidency and there is not another that is close to it. But that is not all we know.

The DoJ believes the president of the United States directed the commission of campaign finance felonies as a candidate. The NYT produced extensive and compelling evidence of serial tax fraud by the Trump family. The state of NY is investigate fraud in their charities.

The House will soon begin investigation of Trump money laundering. A case involving his violation of the Constitution's emoluments clause is under way. In other words, as massive as the Russia scandal is, it might not be the biggest Trump scandal.

It might not even be the scandal that brings Trump down. But what we know is that all of these or any of these scandals must bring him down. This criminal has no business being the White House. He has no business walking freely among us.

2019 is going to be the worst year of Donald Trump's life except for all those that will follow it. These cases will be investigated further and then proven. Some may be prosecuted while he is in office. Some may wait until he leaves office.

But someday this is already certain, no senior American public official--not Richard Nixon, not Andrew Johnson--will go down in more disgrace or be more reviled by history than Donald Trump. And that is as it should be.
concordtom
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Quote:


But someday this is already certain, no senior American public official--not Richard Nixon, not Andrew Johnson--will go down in more disgrace or be more reviled by history than Donald Trump. And that is as it should be.

Amen to that.
What I'm talkin' about!!!

His name shall be stricken from the record, the way Germans wish to erase Hitler.
I am so embarrassed that we Americans could have had this chapter.

We are shamed.
 
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