OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

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bearister
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Do New York prosecutors pose the greatest threat to Donald Trump?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/09/new-york-southern-district-donald-trump-inauguration-prosecutors?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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B.A. Bearacus
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Bought the following for Kelly09 and Oski003 when they hang out together:

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B.A. Bearacus
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/10/us/politics/manafort-mueller-russia-inquiry.html

From the above article:
Quote:

Comments by one of Mr. Mueller's lead prosecutors, disclosed in a transcript of a closed-door hearing, suggest that the special counsel continues to pursue at least one theory: that starting while Russia was taking steps to bolster Mr. Trump's candidacy, people in his orbit were discussing deals to end a dispute over Russia's incursions into Ukraine and possibly give Moscow relief from economic sanctions imposed by the United States and its allies."

...

Pressed by the judge at Monday's hearing to say why Mr. Manafort's alleged lies mattered, Mr. Weissmann gave a broad hint about the thrust of the investigation.

"This goes to the larger view of what we think is going on, and what we think is the motive here," Mr. Weissmann said. "This goes, I think, very much to the heart of what the special counsel's office is investigating."
bearister
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"Mueller is just the beginning. House Democrats plan a vast probe of President Trump and Russia with a heavy focus on money laundering that will include multiple committees and dramatic public hearings, and could last into 2020.

The aggressive plans were outlined yesterday by a Democratic member of Congress at a roundtable for Washington reporters.
The member said Congress plans interviews with new witnesses, and may go back to earlier witnesses who "stonewalled" under the Republican majority.
Why it matters: The reporters, many of them steeped in the special counsel's investigation, came away realizing that House Dems don't plan to depend on Robert Mueller for the last word on interference in the 2016 election.

Instead, Dems will use their new subpoena power to produce a voluminous expos of their own.
Here's the congressional blueprint, as outlined by the member:

At least three committees are already involved: The House Intelligence Committee is taking the lead, coordinating with House Financial Services on money-laundering questions and with House Foreign Affairs on Russia.
Democrats are considering ways to uncover what was said in a Trump private meeting with Putin, "whether that's subpoenaing the notes or subpoenaing the interpreter or other steps."
On Trump family finances, the member said the president is "not in a position to draw red lines."

"I am concerned that he may have drawn a red line that the Department of Justice may be observing."
"If we didn't look at his business, ... we wouldn't know what we know now about his efforts to pursue what may have been the most lucrative deal of his life, the Trump Tower in Moscow something the special counsel's office has said stood to earn the family hundreds of millions of dollars."
"Now, most of his stuff isn't building anymore: It's licensing, and it doesn't make that kind of money. So, this would have been huge."
"[T]he fact that the president says now: 'Well, it's not illegal and I might have lost the election. Why should I miss out, basically, on all that money?' He may very well take the same position now: 'I might not be re-elected, and so why shouldn't I ... still pursue it?" Axios
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bearister
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How Manafort's 2016 meeting with a Russian employee at New York cigar club goes to 'the heart' of Mueller's probe


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-manaforts-2016-meeting-with-a-russian-employee-at-new-york-cigar-club-goes-to-the-heart-of-muellers-probe/2019/02/12/655f84dc-2d67-11e9-8ad3-9a5b113ecd3c_story.html
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NYCGOBEARS
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bearister said:




How Manafort's 2016 meeting with a Russian employee at New York cigar club goes to 'the heart' of Mueller's probe


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-manaforts-2016-meeting-with-a-russian-employee-at-new-york-cigar-club-goes-to-the-heart-of-muellers-probe/2019/02/12/655f84dc-2d67-11e9-8ad3-9a5b113ecd3c_story.html

tl;dr

Does the article mention that the Grand Havana Room is at 666 Fifth Ave, Kushner's building?
Another Bear
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Judge voids Paul Manafort plea deal, says he 'intentionally' lied to the FBI, special counsel and grand jury

Ya think the Russkies want Manafort dead?
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blungld
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This the day after the Senate says no collusion. It's been two years of one party throwing away everything this country built for over 200 years. Not too late to redeem yourself if you supported this.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
Yogi Bear
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blungld said:

This the day after the Senate says no collusion. It's been two years of one party throwing away everything this country built for over 200 years. Not too late to redeem yourself if you supported this.
Oh, I'll never let Trump voters forget they voted for him. There will be a scarlet T.
sonofabear51
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We will overwhelm.
Unit2Sucks
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Yeah trump voters don't get to plea that he tricked them or that if they knew he would be this bad they would have done differently.

Every single thing that has happened during his presidency and come out about his candidacy was foreseen by reasonable people.
bearister
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"Outlining a blueprint for the vast Russia probe planned by the new House majority, a Democratic member of Congress suggested at a roundtable with reporters this week that lawmakers may seek testimony from Ivanka Trump.

The lawmaker said Democrats have "made no decision as to Ivanka Trump," but "obviously there are a number of public reports about her involvement in the Trump Tower Moscow deal, and she may very well have relevant information."
"[W]e will ... sequence the interviews that we do with an eye towards knowing as much as we can before we bring in potential witnesses." Axios

I can hardly wait to observe this. Throughout my career I both took depositions of and guarded witnesses like Ivanka in depositions. I can assure you that although she cleans up well and has a passable line of bull guano delivered in a sexy voice, she is every bit as vacuous as her old man and siblings. What you discover about witnesses like Ivanka is that by the fourth or fifth response that there is no substance there.
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bearister
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Andrew McCabe: Every Day Is a New Low in Trump's White House

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/582748/
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Another Bear
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Yup...
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Another Bear
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Mueller says Paul Manafort should serve 19-24 years in prison

Looks like a life sentence. Even if Trump pardons him, he still faces changes in state jurisdictions.

Quote:

Prosecutors for special counsel Robert Mueller said in a new court filing that President Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort should serve between 19.5 and 24.5 years in prison for the financial crimes for which he was convicted in a Virginia court last August.
Quote:

"In the end, Manafort acted for more than a decade as if he were above the law, and deprived the federal government and various financial institutions of millions of dollars. The sentence here should reflect the seriousness of these crimes, and serve to both deter Manafort and others from engaging in such conduct."
Why it matters: This would essentially be a life sentence for the 69-year-old Manafort. He is also facing a separate case in D.C., where a judge recently ruled that he had violated his plea agreement with Mueller and could therefore lose out on any potential leniency he might be offered.


From Axios: https://www.axios.com/mueller-investigation-paul-manafort-sentence-7e78d54d-ed73-43a2-a671-d697f78b5d39.html
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bearister
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"Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.
For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace"

Nate White
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bearister
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Intimidation, Pressure and Humiliation: Inside Trump's Two-Year War on the Investigations Encircling Him

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/politics/trump-investigations.html

"Last April, Mr. Trump hired Rudolph W. Giuliani, his longtime friend and a famously combative former mayor of New York, as his personal lawyer and ubiquitous television attack dog. A new war had begun.
In jettisoning his previous legal team which had counseled that Mr. Trump should cooperate with the investigation the president decided to combine a legal strategy with a public relations campaign in an aggressive effort to undermine the credibility of both Mr. Mueller and the Justice Department.
Mr. Mueller was unlikely to indict Mr. Trump, the president's advisers believed, so the real danger to his presidency was impeachment a political act that Congress would probably carry out only with broad public support. If Mr. Mueller's investigation could be discredited, then impeachment might be less likely."
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Another Bear
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What I don't get is Roger Stone. He screws the gag order at the least...or issued a threat to a federal judge handling his case in instagram, showing her photo and the crosshairs to a gun scope near her head. Some thought it was a way to get the judge to recuse herself but nope...federal judges aren't recused after a threat, which makes this even stupidier because the judge is none too pleased. He will catch zero breaks in her court and even if Trump pardons this idiot, state charges aren't effected.

This motherfccker has been screwing with American democracy for close to 50 years. First I hope the judge tosses Stone's butt in jail so he can shower with thugs on contempt...then puts him away for life. Or Vlad kills him.






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bearister
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Now that the Mueller Report is apparently getting close to conclusion, it's amateur prediction time:

Since William Barr respects Mueller, my prediction is that when he reviews the report he says "Holy F! I'm outa here!" and promptly resigns.
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blungld
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bearister said:

Now that the Mueller Report is apparently getting close to conclusion, it's amateur prediction time:

Since William Barr respects Mueller, my prediction is that when he reviews the report he says "Holy F! I'm outa here!" and promptly resigns.
There is so much buzz in WH, Congress, and in the news with revelations and accusations in every direction. I think this is it folks.

In all honesty I am pretty nervous. We have seen no movement with the base, which means no movement in Senate and of course the stepped up counter misinformation coming from Alex Jones, Rush, Hannity, and the like. It really seems like they have been able to sell their fake news/coup narrative...so where every reasonable person can see clear criminal action and intent and the need to impeach, might we be just stuck with an asset/criminal sitting in the WH? A man that 60% believe is a national security threat able to continue to govern us and cook up plans for revenge, plant loyalists, and disseminate his misinformation? If you think we are divided now, that scenario would start to approach a pre-civil war level of outrage and loyalty on the two "sides." It could be incredibly scary domestically and devastating internationally.

The macro truth that no one wants to address is that even if Trump is innocent (and he absolutely is not) the patriotic position is that he is no longer the best man for the job and is so poisoned and divisive and mean-spirited and irrational, that he should resign for the good of the country. What executive would not have stepped down by now if he was having this effect on his organization, let alone the entire country? Doing what is best for America doesn't even seem to be on the radar of the GOP, just stay in power and attack.

I want to believe that Barr is a Patriot, but the quick action after his appointment scares the hell out of me that he shutting things down and part of the cover up. I hear reports of boxes being moved from the Special Counsel's office. Is that the transferring or referral of cases? Mueller protecting case files/evidence? Or is this Barr moving to close investigation before more damning evidence gets out to the public?

We will know soon who are the patriots and who are the traitors. And if America's principles and system of government succeeds or fails us.

So many people (Graham) have disappointed me greatly with their ability to sell out and be a part of the cover up; I can only pray that they are outnumbered. And I hope when all things come to light we find out that some of them were actually patriots behind the scenes all along and played a role in placating Trump while assisting the investigation...and if not that we get ahold of the evidence of their criminal actions and how they we were compromised (blackmail or greed)? How many members of Congress are part of this cover up because the investigation implies them too? Does that explain the wide spread inaction?

This is it folks.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
Another Bear
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I thought the shtt was going to hit the fan around March. Looks like we're on schedule. Even if there's relatively nothing regarding Russia (very doubtful) the obstruction and other state charges will stand.

Beside the release of the Mueller report, there's talk the SDNY federal attorney's office is ready to charge Trump with a felony, despite the general directive a sitting POTUS can't be indicted. I'm guessing the Trump kids get indicted too.
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bearister
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His supporters could care less what he does or what lies he tells. tRump has conned them into believing he is their Messianic standard bearer in the Fox News manufactured Culture War.

If the disappointed tRumpists act out when he loses in 2020, or is impeached and removed before then, I am sure the National Guard will be more than happy to apply force commensurate with the level of displeasure they display, up to and including drone strikes of hateful hillbilly enclaves. I think the government still has stockpiles of napalm.


With regard to members of the tRump Crime Family ever serving time in prison, I just don't see it because there will most likely be at least one tRumpist on any criminal jury willing to engage in jury nullification and refuse to convict.
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blungld
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Another Bear said:

Beside the release of the Mueller report, there's talk the SDNY federal attorney's office is ready to charge Trump with a felony, despite the general directive a sitting POTUS can't be indicted. I'm guessing the Trump kids get indicted too.
I agree. I think before, or simultaneous to, the release of the report (or possible interim report which seems like a logical next step to prompt action while still keep moving forward on auxiliary charges/investigation), we will see a couple more indictments and that might be why Hannity and Trump are wigging out. I expect an indictment on Don Jr, maybe Assange, maybe Kushner, maybe Bannon?, and maybe a surprise in terms of a member of Congress or media (though those may come later to avoid appearance of coup or silencing the right).

The unsealing of Don Jr. indictment seems like the obvious pressure point to be placed on the WH before filing a first (I think we may get more than one) or final SCO report.

How far will Trump go to counter? What is the limit of the loyalty of Congress, and why are they so loyal (criminal intent)? Who are the patriots and who are the traitors, the meat of the American melodrama is going to unfold for us now I think.

Do we see a series of flipping & plea bargains; mea culpas; or pardons...or a sudden international threat that requires consolidating executive power (courtesy of Russia or North Korea or Venezuela) or a "Burning of the Reichstag?"

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
Another Bear
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I have no idea how any of this plays out but if what has happened already is an indication, someone has to drop the HAMMER hard because these criminals are not the usual thugs. They are kleptocracy fcckheads with resources, backing from instituations (lawyers, banks, government) who are use to gaming the system and zero punishment for their crimes. The only way to stop the kleptocracy is serious prison time, a real crack down. If no hard time is doled out...this crap will simply shapeshifter and reform in another insidious form. My fear is they just let these criminals and traitors off.
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bearister
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blungld said:

..... I expect an indictment on...maybe a surprise in terms of a member of Congress ...


Somehow I don't think Devin Nunes' "I did something wrong and I think they know" look on his face is going to play well in the exercise yard at Leavenworth when he is serving his term on the conviction for obstruction of justice.


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bearister
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Another Bear said:

I have no idea how any of this plays out but if what has happened already is an indication, someone has to drop the HAMMER hard because these criminals are not the usual thugs. They are kleptocracy fcckheads with resources, backing from instituations (lawyers, banks, government) who are use to gaming the system and zero punishment for their crimes. The only way to stop the kleptocracy is serious prison time, a real crack down. If no hard time is doled out...this crap will simply shapeshifter and reform in another insidious form. My fear is they just let these criminals and traitors off.


Are you talking about the Catholic Church?
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Another Bear
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bearister said:

Another Bear said:

I have no idea how any of this plays out but if what has happened already is an indication, someone has to drop the HAMMER hard because these criminals are not the usual thugs. They are kleptocracy fcckheads with resources, backing from instituations (lawyers, banks, government) who are use to gaming the system and zero punishment for their crimes. The only way to stop the kleptocracy is serious prison time, a real crack down. If no hard time is doled out...this crap will simply shapeshifter and reform in another insidious form. My fear is they just let these criminals and traitors off.


Are you talking about the Catholic Church?
Honestly, maybe the kleptocracy class (the uber rich .0001%) took a page from how the Church suppresses bad PR/behavior and never drops the hammer...always looks the other way. Trump, the Russians, Saudis and Americans like Erik Prince are the new kleptocracy. I'm thinking the whole Trump/Russia/Saudi thing is more about kleptocracy and how traditional governments have had a difficult time containing them. Basically the same shtt related to power abuse.
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Anarchistbear
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Who was punished for starting an illegal war- hundreds of thousands dead, turmoil and millions displaced? For torture? For throwing the world economy into chaos and a depression which we still haven't recovered from. Nothing is going to happen.
bearister
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Anarchistbear said:

Who was punished for starting an illegal war- hundreds of thousands dead, turmoil and millions displaced? For torture? For throwing the world economy into chaos and a depression which we still haven't recovered from. Nothing is going to happen.


Yes, by definition, Bush\Cheney are war criminals for starting a pretextual war in the Iraq. The Royal House of Saud, that literally owned the Bushes, viewed Saddam Hussein as a threat, as did Israel. No way was Obama going to take them to task. The legacy of Bush\Cheney is symbolized on that hillside by the Lafayette BART station and I feel raw about it every time I drive by it on the freeway.



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OBear073akaSMFan
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His sunken cheeks from excessive cleaning of the Moron's pipe!
sp4149
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bearister said:

blungld said:

..... I expect an indictment on...maybe a surprise in terms of a member of Congress ...


Somehow I don't think Devin Nunes' "I did something wrong and I think they know" look on his face is going to play well in the exercise yard at Leavenworth when he is serving his term on the conviction for obstruction of justice.



Could that be why his family moved the dairy nearby?
(Due North in Sibley, Iowa)
sonofabear51
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Hell yeah!
bearister
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7 SCENARIOS FOR HOW THE MUELLER PROBE MIGHT 'WRAP UP'

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-russia-probe-trump-wrap-up-scenarios/
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blungld
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bearister said:

7 SCENARIOS FOR HOW THE MUELLER PROBE MIGHT 'WRAP UP'

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-russia-probe-trump-wrap-up-scenarios/
If the report is not enough to indict or impeach Trump, that will radically change the political landscape.

What do you all think? Will the Dems still be able to go forward with other investigations; will Trump still be held to account on campaign finance, obstruction, fraud, tampering, emoluments, and laundering; and if the case is ONLY circumstantial will Congress at the very least limit his power, not trust him, and take steps on preventing ongoing foreign tampering?

Or, if Trump is able to sell the narrative that Mueller report proves "innocence" and is a "witch hunt" is it all over? He wins: fills the courts, installs loyalists, and increases executive power? Will the courts and House investigations be severely knee capped by right wing narrative that will dismiss all the damning things the investigation has shown, and that short of a video of Putin and Trump saying out loud "let's collude," he is vindicated from all lies, from all illegal acts by his appointed lieutenants who most likely acted under his instruction, and from all other crimes that are not explicitly "collusion" in the narrowest definition of a non-existent crime?

How does a country like ours just move forward knowing there is a criminal, a likely Russian asset, who is at the very least been shown to be irrational and self-interested and an incompetent manager who fosters an environment of corruption, in the White House governing us all? I don't get how America can function when a majority doesn't believe a thing their leader says and mistrusts his very intent and loyalty, not on the basis of partisanship or opinion, but on proven fact. Do we all just wait until 2020 and hope the damage isn't too great, and that God forbid he doesn't win re-election?

I don't like how this feels like it is playing out.

"The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!"
 
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