OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

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sycasey
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 6:04p, 8/26/17
Unit2Sucks;842865050 said:
I don't understand the point of sending a message to Mueller. It wouldn't cause him to stand down. If Trump wanted to send that message he would pardon his son right now. This was just a kickback to one of his early supporters and someone who Trump thinks is far more popular than he actually is. Not unlike Trump views himself actually.


Bingo. There is no calculation to anything Trump does. He is pardoning Arpaio because Arpaio supported him, therefore he is a "good guy." It goes no further than that.

I read this article recently, which does a pretty good job of explaining why Trump does whatever he does:
https://thebaffler.com/latest/the-president-of-blank-sucking-nullity-roth

Quote:
It is not quite fair to say that Donald Trump lacks core beliefs, but to the extent that we can take apart these beliefs they amount to Give Donald Trump Your Money and Donald Trump Should Really Be on Television More. The only comprehensible throughline to his politics is that everything Trump says is something he’s said previously, with additional very’s and more-and-more’s appended over time; his worldview amounts to the sum of the dumb **** he saw on the cover of the New York Post in 1985, subjected to a few decades of rancid compounding interest and deteriorating mental aptitude. He watches a lot of cable news, but he struggles to follow even stories that have been custom built for people like him—old, uninformed, amorphously if deeply aggrieved.

There’s a reason for this. Trump doesn’t know anything or really believe anything about any topic beyond himself, because he has no interest in any topic beyond himself; his evident cognitive decline and hyperactive laziness and towering monomania ensure that he will never again learn a new thing in his life. He has no friends and no real allies; his inner circle is divided between ostensibly scandalized cynics and theatrically shameless ones, all of whom hold him in low regard and see him as a potential means to their individuated ends. There is no help on the way; his outer orbit is a rotation of replacement-level rage-grandpas and defective, perpetually clammy operators.


Read everything Trump does through the lens of malignant narcissism and it always makes more sense.
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bearister
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In reply to bearister • 4:04p, 8/28/17
...and from the There Isn't One Shred of Evidence of Russian Collusion Department:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6wkjwl/trump_associate_boasted_that_moscow_deal_will_get/?st=J6WRPZBA&sh=76a88975

"Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it," Mr. Sater wrote in an email. "I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process."
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BearDevil
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In reply to bearister • 3:42p, 8/29/17
Comrade Felix Sater is problematic for the Trumps on multiple levels. Appears to have first hand knowledge of shady funding of a NYC deal. Trump can pardon away federal cases, not so much for state charges. Uday and Qusay could go down. Also was working with Trump's hack attorney and promising Russian election help. Multiple Russian contacts during the campaign via Sarter, Manafort, and Flynn. Trump's also already perjured himself about not knowing Sarter.
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bearister
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In reply to bearister • 6:52p, 8/29/17
Word of the day: Gaslighting


" Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or members of a group, hoping to make targets question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief........in January 2017, the term gaslighting became topical again as the result of Trump's behavior, because of Trump's "habitual tendency to say 'X,' and then, at some later date, indignantly declare, "I did not say 'X.' In fact, I would never dream of saying 'X.'" had brought new notability to the term.".......
......Sociopaths and narcissists frequently use gaslighting tactics. Sociopaths consistently transgress social mores, break laws, and exploit others, but typically also are convincing liars, sometimes charming ones, who consistently deny wrongdoing. Thus, some who have been victimized by sociopaths may doubt their own perceptions." Wikipedia
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concordtom
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In reply to sycasey • 10:42a, 8/31/17
sycasey;842865097 said:
Bingo. There is no calculation to anything Trump does. He is pardoning Arpaio because Arpaio supported him, therefore he is a "good guy." It goes no further than that.

I read this article recently, which does a pretty good job of explaining why Trump does whatever he does:
https://thebaffler.com/latest/the-president-of-blank-sucking-nullity-roth



Read everything Trump does through the lens of malignant narcissism and it always makes more sense.


Thank you.
I agree.

The trouble I have with it is that there were, are still remaining, so many Americans not able to view him for what he is.
I laughed at the prospect of him being President when he first announced, thought (still do) it was merely an ego-trip for him, and that he had no chance of actually coming close. I thought that was truly apparent on knowable by ALL.

I am truly disheartened that I turned out to be very wrong. Not because I am upset about being wrong, but by the repercussions. So far, we have not lost much by the decision, accept culturally we are more divided, the tone has worsened, we've backed out of environmental and scientific gains, etc etc.... I surely hope repercussions do not extend to war, either external or internal.

Trump can go to ____ as far as I'm concerned. The world would be a better place. Or put him in grandfather's prison, where all he can do is play with his money and his grandkids. That's a fair enough solution. Quit reeking your narcissistic havoc on us.
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bearister
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4:04p, 8/31/17
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/opinion/trump-harvey-storm-army.html?referer=

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bearister
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5:55p, 8/31/17
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-stalked-princess-diana_us_59a865aae4b0524fde2ffd57
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Unit2Sucks
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10:51a, 9/1/17


So it would be wrong if Comey were to exonerate Clinton before completing an investigation (which isn't really what happened). But he has asked Comey and others to exonerate him before finishing the Russia investigation, which by the way he also has tried to kill.

Smart move Trump.
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bearister
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3:10p, 9/1/17
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Golden retriever
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5:43p, 9/1/17
It's outrageous that the Brannon's and the rest of that group, with no public service at all, not to mention the draft dodging president, has such disrespect for Gens Matthis and Kelly. Trump's ripping Kelly is beyond disgusting.
Semiper Fi.
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bearister
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7:27p, 9/5/17
http://www.thedailybeast.com/seth-meyers-slams-trumps-needlessly-cruel-daca-decision
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Cal Junkie
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12:03p, 9/6/17
Not so fast re: DACA

https://www.facebook.com/moveon/videos/10154751634555493/
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sycasey
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In reply to bearister • 4:28p, 9/6/17
With this DACA decision, Trump just made another unnecessary headache for Congressional Republicans. They do NOT want to have to deal with this.
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bearister
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7:02a, 9/7/17
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6ymx5o/disturbing_new_evidence_of_how_trump_is_boosting/?st=J7AIM69Z&sh=1a149120





https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6yhx4p/gop_leaders_prevent_votes_to_ban_federal_spending/?st=J7AJISHN&sh=5cc3095d




https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6ykimo/russians_flock_to_trump_properties_to_give_birth/?st=J7AJ8SLE&sh=5cf8509e
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concordtom
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7:52a, 9/7/17
I keep reading in the news the term "DACA Recipients". And commenters online complain that they get "free stuff" that US citizens don't get. Honest question: what do they receive? Social security #, permission to attend school, work, join mili. What else? The duty and pathway to pay taxes, I presume.
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sycasey
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In reply to concordtom • 9:34a, 9/7/17
concordtom said:
I keep reading in the news the term "DACA Recipients". And commenters online complain that they get "free stuff" that US citizens don't get. Honest question: what do they receive? Social security #, permission to attend school, work, join mili. What else? The duty and pathway to pay taxes, I presume.

That's pretty much it. They don't get any welfare or other federal benefits. Just the right to work and/or go to school. And they have to keep a perfectly clean criminal record.

Honestly, it sounds like a pretty conservative plan.
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Unit2Sucks
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11:58a, 9/7/17
What bothers me most about the broader DACA discussion is that people are speaking as if the dreamers aren't Americans. They are every bit as American as I am (born and raised here to immigrant parents who happened to be citizens) and they are arguably more American than many people with superior legal rights (eg my parents). We are talking about people who came here as young children and grew up in our system.

Is Ted Cruz more American than the typical DACA recipient? He was born outside the USA to immigrant parents. The legal answer is that he's a citizen but is he really any more American?
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sycasey
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 3:33p, 9/7/17
Unit2Sucks said:
What bothers me most about the broader DACA discussion is that people are speaking as if the dreamers aren't Americans. They are every bit as American as I am (born and raised here to immigrant parents who happened to be citizens) and they are arguably more American than many people with superior legal rights (eg my parents). We are talking about people who came here as young children and grew up in our system.

Is Ted Cruz more American than the typical DACA recipient? He was born outside the USA to immigrant parents. The legal answer is that he's a citizen but is he really any more American?
It's important to remember that DACA does have broad support as a policy. Polling indicates that most Americans are in favor of it. The DREAM Act would probably pass if you brought it to a full floor vote in Congress today. The issue is that it would pass with near-100% in Democratic votes and enough Republican votes to put it over the top. But that would require a Republican majority leader to bring it to the floor, and therein lies the rub -- their base contains at least a significant minority (if not an outright majority) of Trumpers who are reflexively anti-immigrant without understanding what an individual policy like DACA actually does. It leaves them open to primary challenges.

So will the GOP have the courage to bring this to a vote so it can become law? It's almost certainly the right and moral thing to let these kids stay in the country and to give them a path to citizenship, but as we all know that's not always the main factor.

It was easy for Ryan/McConnell to punt the ball every time, when they knew they had Obama to blame things on. Now they are in charge, so any problems become Republican problems. This is like the health-care fight all over again. No good options for the GOP.
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bearister
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1:12p, 9/8/17
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/07/opinion/inner-racism-revealed.html?referer=


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/opinion/dreamers-liars-and-bad-economics.html?referer=

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/09/08/the-case-for-trump-russia-collusion-were-getting-very-very-close/?utm_term=.34e980fb90db
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BearDevil
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3:55p, 9/12/17
Bannon has amped up his fatwa against Jared, Cohn, Tillerson, and RINOs (McConnell, Ryan, Flake, Heller, McCain, and Corker). GOP primaries will be vicious and costly.

Trump can't be too stoked about Bannon's 60 Minutes interview.
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9:31p, 9/12/17




https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6znnas/mueller_is_going_for_the_kill_on_trumprussia/?st=J7IJ2E9R&sh=ff7c6c3b
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BearDevil
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1:31p, 9/13/17
Flynn's kid is now in the crosshairs. The nepotism klan is bizarre: Trump Jr, Jared, Flynn Jr, and Manafort's son in law.
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sycasey
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10:16p, 9/13/17
It's starting to look like Schumer and Pelosi have figured out how to play Trump like a fiddle.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/us/politics/trump-dinner-schumer-pelosi-daca-obamacare.html
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BearDevil
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2:35p, 11/10/17
Allegedly during his brief stint as Trump's NSA, Flynn was negotiating a deal to kidnap a dissident in PA and deliver him to a Turkish prison for $15M!?! Can't imagine Colin Powell or Condi Rice doing anything remotely close to that.
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bearister
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In reply to BearDevil • 7:14p, 11/10/17
BearDevil said:
Allegedly during his brief stint as Trump's NSA, Flynn was negotiating a deal to kidnap a dissident in PA and deliver him to a Turkish prison for $15M!?! Can't imagine Colin Powell or Condi Rice doing anything remotely close to that.


Are you starting to get the impression that not all generals are rocket scientists?
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sp4149
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In reply to bearister • 7:40a, 11/11/17
bearister said:
BearDevil said:
Allegedly during his brief stint as Trump's NSA, Flynn was negotiating a deal to kidnap a dissident in PA and deliver him to a Turkish prison for $15M!?! Can't imagine Colin Powell or Condi Rice doing anything remotely close to that.


Are you starting to get the impression that not all generals are rocket scientists?
Maybe this adds some perspective on Veteran's Day; that all Veterans after their service do not display the same loyalty to their country that was expected when they were serving. It's not just Flynn, but the veterans who join mercenary armies to fight for the highest dollar and the veterans who use their military connections to wrangle high paying jobs with military contractors to extract the last fiscal drop of blood from our government.

Eisenhower warned us of the military-industrial complex; but it developed anyway and now many veterans (especially senior officers) expect to use their military service to reap a financial harvest after their service. Flynn is hardly the exception in his intentions, maybe he lowered the bar with his greed.
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bearister
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3:16p, 11/11/17



https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7c9ytx/these_are_not_the_actions_of_an_innocent_man/?st=J9VY6KTH&sh=a730a147
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mikecohen
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In reply to sp4149 • 3:57p, 11/11/17
sp4149 said:
bearister said:
BearDevil said:
Allegedly during his brief stint as Trump's NSA, Flynn was negotiating a deal to kidnap a dissident in PA and deliver him to a Turkish prison for $15M!?! Can't imagine Colin Powell or Condi Rice doing anything remotely close to that.


Are you starting to get the impression that not all generals are rocket scientists?
Maybe this adds some perspective on Veteran's Day; that all Veterans after their service do not display the same loyalty to their country that was expected when they were serving. It's not just Flynn, but the veterans who join mercenary armies to fight for the highest dollar and the veterans who use their military connections to wrangle high paying jobs with military contractors to extract the last fiscal drop of blood from our government.

Eisenhower warned us of the military-industrial complex; but it developed anyway and now many veterans (especially senior officers) expect to use their military service to reap a financial harvest after their service. Flynn is hardly the exception in his intentions, maybe he lowered the bar with his greed.
Emoticon: From someone sympathetic to your point of view, I think your criticism is overbroad and therefore unfair. Even in our bloated military, the space for high level officers is limited; and it is also the case that highly qualified military people may, for whatever good reasons, may want to change their lives (an emotion that comes to all of us at points); and the skills of those people are very meaningful in the private sector. It's just not fair to imply that all of them just fall into a sinecure for the benefit of whomever might want to manipulate their image, for the rest of their lives. There's a lot to distinguish successful and productive ex-military people like Ross Perot, Jimmy Carter, Dwight Eisenhower, Jack Jacobs, Malcolm Nance (the list is endless) from someone who appears to have been ready to subvert the goals of the government for the administration of which he worked, for the hidden benefit of a foreign country ready to pay him 15 million dollars to arranged for the illegal and immoral re-patriation of that country's dissident.
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BearChemist
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3:31p, 11/13/17
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BearNIt
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11:35a, 11/24/17
Flynn and his legal team have informed Trump's legal team that they will no longer share information regarding the Mueller investigation. This is a significant event due to the fact that if Flynn is cooperating with Mueller it could signal that he has something of value to trade in exchange for leniency. I say this because Mueller would have no incentive to enter into such an agreement with Flynn unless Flynn had important information that could pertain to Trump Jr., Kushner, or Trump. Mueller seems to be working his way up the ladder to get to those above the head of the NSA. Absence this type of information Flynn or his son could be prosecuted on the information that Mueller has already uncovered which includes working as a foreign agent and not disclosing it, lying on his security clearance form, or money laundering. Why has Trump been so nice to Flynn even after he was warned by Obama and a US attorney that Flynn was ripe for compromise by various foreign entities? What does Flynn know about the relationship between Trump, Turkey, Russia, and their leaders?
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bearister
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10:06p, 11/25/17
MAGA = MUELLER AIN'T GOING AWAY
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BearNIt
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8:11p, 11/30/17
Did Trump commit obstruction when he pressed top Republicans to end the Senate Russia inquiry? Did he ask the AG Sessions to end the Russia inquiry and that is why Sessions won't answer the question from the committee addressing if he was asked by the President to end the inquiry? This could be trouble for Trump if Mueller starts asking Republicans under oath about their conversations with the President concerning his request.
Were these calls made before or after Comey's termination? This investigation will not go away?
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BearNIt
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6:39a, 12/1/17
Michael Flynn will today plead guilty to lying to the Feds. This seems to indicate that he has something of value to trade and that he will act as a witness against either Trump, Trump Jr. or Kushner. Mueller is working his way up the ladder and the only people above Flynn of consequence are Trump, Trump Jr. or Kushner. Apparently that "Lock her up", chant that Flynn often led takes on a new meaning as karma has focused on Trump and his associates. In the last 24 hours the Flynn guilty plea along with the revelation that Trump contacted Senator Burr who heads the Senate Intelligence Committee and asked that Burr end the Russian investigation has exploded Trump's assertion that the investigations would be over before the first of the year. What actions will Trump take, will he move to fire the Special Prosecutor or try to pardon Flynn? The statements coming out of the White House and Trump's tweets should be informative. Apparently when your predecessor comes to you and warns you against hiring somebody and a U.S. Attorney also advises that the guy you want to hire might be compromised by the Russians, you should listen to them. Flynn rolled over on Trump like a brand new puppy.
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sycasey
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9:03a, 12/1/17
Welp.

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BearNIt
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9:41a, 12/1/17
Mueller filed a Statement of Fact in connection with the Flynn plea which indicates that Flynn had meetings with the "Russian Ambassador about the sanctions and then advised a senior transition official and a very senior transition official." This description could pertain to Mike Pence, Kushner, Trump Jr., or Trump. ABC's report that Trump directed Flynn to make contact with the Russians makes me wonder, what do the Russians have on Trump?
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