OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

Anarchistbear
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I don't disagree though his character hasn't ever changed. His election was largely about insurrection and disapproval of a corrupt system and the two parties in regions left behind. Many were willing to gamble and ignore his character and flaws in the hope he'd kick the system down, rather than choose another corporate caretaker. It hasn't happened but that anger still remains on both sides of the spectrum and the electorate remains even more volatile. (On the left the election played out as not voting or third party, but no more.)

I think a lot of "rules" have been forever broken by that election. We elected a game show host who ignored traditional rules of campaigning, approval ratings, money, behavior, qualifications and created his own media while ignoring the traditional. The old rules have changed. That's not all a bad thing.
bearister
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Anarchistbear said:

.....The old rules have changed. That's not all a bad thing.


If the old rules protected us from a small fingered vulgarian like tRump becoming POTUS then sign me up as a fan of the old rules.
tRump's non sequitur tweets, which also wholly lack any semblance of decorum, are subjecting America to shame and ridicule on a global basis. It probably also compromises the national security of the United States in light of the fact the Administration is failing to disguise that the emotional and intellectual development of our leader apparently hit a wall when he was 12 years old. Meanwhile his base continues to interpret his conduct as a cross between 3 dimensional chess and performance art that is part of his master plan to drain the swamp.
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Anarchistbear
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Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war
Another Bear
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How dumb is this? I guess Trump is now between a rock and a hard place because busting a move like that can blow up in your face...singe that golden retriever on the head.

Trump Lawyers Are Considering A Challenge To "60 Minutes" Airing Of A Stormy Daniels Interview
BearNIt
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Looks like Devin Nunes and his Republican led House Intelligence Committee is ready for the Trump money shot. Their report will say that there was no interference by the Russians, no evidence of collusion, no obstruction, and no money laundering. All this after Nunes has gone out of his way to destroy any credibility that the House investigation may have had early on. They didn't obtain the necessary testimony, documents, and conduct the necessary follow up one would expect in an investigation. The Republican committee staff has already prepared a 150 page report that won't be worth the paper that it was written on.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/12/politics/house-republicans-russia-conclusions/index.html

It's funny that Theresa May the PM of Great Britain today accused the Russians of attempting to assassinate an ex Russian spy and his daughter and still this administration won't say anything against Putin. Also, given that Trump is talking to Clinton's ex lawyer, he must think that Mueller is going to charge him with crimes. Lets not forget the illegal campaign finance issue with the Stormy payments that Trump's lawyer paid without the knowledge of Trump. What's funny is that there are more than a few people trying to prevent her story from coming out including a corporation that Trump's attorney set up, but whose CEO is unknown.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/theresa-may-says-highly-likely-russia-is-responsible-for-spys-poisoning/2018/03/12/7baa6d22-25f4-11e8-a227-fd2b009466bc_story.html?utm_term=.1e6d24d4cee2

Now the Qataris will not handover information regarding how Kushner and therefore U.S. foreign policy was influenced by the UAE and Saudis. We will have to see what happens in that part of the world given that the Qataris now have Kushner and Trump by the short hairs.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/377900-qatar-officials-decline-to-give-kushner-info-to-mueller-probe-report
bearister
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Nunes is even money at the sports' books whether at his sentencing hearing the judge will elect the execution option under 18 U.S. Code 2381.
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B.A. Bearacus
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Another Bear
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That messaging, despite being new tech and ALL CAPS, is old school fascism and authoritarianism. Here's how it works:

A) Distract from the facts, change the subject, move the goal posts, never address anything
B) Blame the victim, play the victim
C) When "A" doesn't work, make sh*t up and LIE, LIE, LIE
D) When "C" doesn't work: ATTACK everyone: the press, your staff, your own party
E) Rinse, repeat, shuffle, repeat...
B.A. Bearacus
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AB, sorry, I deleted Trump's tweet. Felt dirty giving it a bounce.
BearChemist
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BearNIt said:

Looks like Devin Nunes and his Republican led House Intelligence Committee is ready for the Trump money shot. Their report will say that there was no interference by the Russians, no evidence of collusion, no obstruction, and no money laundering. All this after Nunes has gone out of his way to destroy any credibility that the House investigation may have had early on. They didn't obtain the necessary testimony, documents, and conduct the necessary follow up one would expect in an investigation. The Republican committee staff has already prepared a 150 page report that won't be worth the paper that it was written on.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/12/politics/house-republicans-russia-conclusions/index.html

It's funny that Theresa May the PM of Great Britain today accused the Russians of attempting to assassinate an ex Russian spy and his daughter and still this administration won't say anything against Putin. Also, given that Trump is talking to Clinton's ex lawyer, he must think that Mueller is going to charge him with crimes. Lets not forget the illegal campaign finance issue with the Stormy payments that Trump's lawyer paid without the knowledge of Trump. What's funny is that there are more than a few people trying to prevent her story from coming out including a corporation that Trump's attorney set up, but whose CEO is unknown.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/theresa-may-says-highly-likely-russia-is-responsible-for-spys-poisoning/2018/03/12/7baa6d22-25f4-11e8-a227-fd2b009466bc_story.html?utm_term=.1e6d24d4cee2

Now the Qataris will not handover information regarding how Kushner and therefore U.S. foreign policy was influenced by the UAE and Saudis. We will have to see what happens in that part of the world given that the Qataris now have Kushner and Trump by the short hairs.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/377900-qatar-officials-decline-to-give-kushner-info-to-mueller-probe-report

Oopsie

BearNIt
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The Committee has gone off the rails. Can you really trust the report from the Committee when they didn't bring back witnesses who tried to assert Executive Privilege and didn't answer questions? The Russians interfered with the election to hurt Clinton and thereby help Trump. They knew what they had in Trump and that is why he won't say one word against the Russians or Putin. I can't recall members of an incoming administration having the number of meetings with Russians that they conveniently left off of their SF 86, denied, and then admitted to later on. Should be interesting as Mueller continues his investigation and cooperating witnesses provide further information. Seems like there is a new character every week that was previously unknown.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/12/politics/house-intel-rep-tom-rooney-russia-investigation-erin-burnett-outfront-cnntv/index.html

2 for 3
bearister
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The bodies are stacking.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-found-dead-at-his-london-home?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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Another Bear
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That makes the Russian body count over 14 for this Dotard hacking case. Wonder how much higher it goes.

Oh and BTW, this is Putin's hobby. He doesn't mean any harm by it.
bearister
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Another Bear said:

That makes the Russian body count over 14 for this Dotard hacking case. Wonder how much higher it goes.

Oh and BTW, this is Putin's hobby. He doesn't mean any harm by it.

Members of the tRump Crime Family better start using food tasters.
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bearister
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....Tick tock, tick tock...


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/15/robert-mueller-trump-organization-russia-documents?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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blungld
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The Ides of March. Interesting day to subpoena documents from Trump Org. Between Russian sanctions, MeToo, school shootings, the quick lifting of banking restrictions, Trump rallies, Korea, Mueller probe, House Intelligence halting, the media turning more attention to Pence and his aides, etc. ... does it not seem that we are in the frenetic quickening that suggests behind the scenes upheaval? It feels like the guilty are scrambling for ways to shut things down, create diversion, buy time, and hide assets. It looks to me like the tightening of the net and the end game. WH behavior suggests that they know they're caught and it's now full CYI mode.

Are we about to move from presumption of innocence questions to instead ask: Will they go quietly or will we have a Constitutional crisis; How open and shut will Mueller's investigation be and thus how protracted the legal wrangling; Will Stormy, Putin, or past associates release singularly damning info/media that will so sway the court of public opinion that Impeachment will move quickly and unopposed; and Just how broad is the case of collusion/obstruction/fraud/laundering - does it just hit the inner circle (Kushner, Ivanka, Trump, Pence, et al) or are we looking at a gutting of Republican leadership as well (McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, and other cabinet/Congress members)?

I personally think that the criminal behavior & corruption touches most of the Republican Leadership (and some Democrats too) and that we will all be shocked at how many fall--but that some temperance and restraint will have to be shown to avoid a complete breakdown of the federal government.

Maybe I'm too swayed by my news sources and friends, but I think the next few months are, for better or worse, going to be historic (more epic than Watergate) and will force the Nation to re-evaluate a lot of our principles, ethics, laws, and the role of government. I can only hope that our higher nature and not the partisan power plays (fear mongering propaganda like calling this a coup) win out. We will either emerge stronger than before or on the precipice of the next great war (in conjunction with the international rise of oligarchy, Corporatocracy, and authoritarianism). I am very nervous that this all looks very much like the rise of fascism around the globe and the Climate Change is just beginning to play out as an international security issue that is heating everything up.

Apologies for the soapboxing. Will be interesting to look back at this in a year. In many ways, I hope I am wildly off. In either case, I pray that the nation comes together and rediscovers ideals over platform.
dajo9
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blungld said:

The Ides of March. Interesting day to subpoena documents from Trump Org. Between Russian sanctions, MeToo, school shootings, the quick lifting of banking restrictions, Trump rallies, Korea, Mueller probe, House Intelligence halting, the media turning more attention to Pence and his aides, etc. ... does it not seem that we are in the frenetic quickening that suggests behind the scenes upheaval? It feels like the guilty are scrambling for ways to shut things down, create diversion, buy time, and hide assets. It looks to me like the tightening of the net and the end game. WH behavior suggests that they know they're caught and it's now full CYI mode.

Are we about to move from presumption of innocence questions to instead ask: Will they go quietly or will we have a Constitutional crisis; How open and shut will Mueller's investigation be and thus how protracted the legal wrangling; Will Stormy, Putin, or past associates release singularly damning info/media that will so sway the court of public opinion that Impeachment will move quickly and unopposed; and Just how broad is the case of collusion/obstruction/fraud/laundering - does it just hit the inner circle (Kushner, Ivanka, Trump, Pence, et al) or are we looking at a gutting of Republican leadership as well (McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, and other cabinet/Congress members)?

I personally think that the criminal behavior & corruption touches most of the Republican Leadership (and some Democrats too) and that we will all be shocked at how many fall--but that some temperance and restraint will have to be shown to avoid a complete breakdown of the federal government.

Maybe I'm too swayed by my news sources and friends, but I think the next few months are, for better or worse, going to be historic (more epic than Watergate) and will force the Nation to re-evaluate a lot of our principles, ethics, laws, and the role of government. I can only hope that our higher nature and not the partisan power plays (fear mongering propaganda like calling this a coup) win out. We will either emerge stronger than before or on the precipice of the next great war (in conjunction with the international rise of oligarchy, Corporatocracy, and authoritarianism). I am very nervous that this all looks very much like the rise of fascism around the globe and the Climate Change is just beginning to play out as an international security issue that is heating everything up.

Apologies for the soapboxing. Will be interesting to look back at this in a year. In many ways, I hope I am wildly off. In either case, I pray that the nation comes together and rediscovers ideals over platform.
This is lining up to be so bad for Republicans that I'm starting to think we'll probably be at war in Iran by the November elections
Another Bear
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Sadly you might he correct. A war would be a classic fascist move.
bearister
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Another Bear said:

Sadly you might he correct. A war would be a classic fascist move.

Any war with Iran would have to be nuke since we couldn't muster up enough draftees that could pass drug and physical fitness tests.
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blungld
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Another Bear said:

Sadly you might he correct. A war would be a classic fascist move.
What is a desperate narcissist willing to sacrifice for his own ego? The Korea talks might be the preamble to war? The replacement of Rex for a lackey -- is he trying to find an international conflict as the last desperate move to consolidate power? He is a total betrayal of country and still the goons (I'm sorry to name call but if you still think this way you are a goon) wear the Make America Great Again hats. Good little brown shirts they are.
Another Bear
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I think this is Bannon and Miller speaking to Trump, goosing him to up the ante knowing he'll blow or make a yuuuge mistake in his incompetence and foolhardiness. This is how you play a dotard, and apparently the Russians knew this. Stroke his ego, wind him up...get out of the way.

Good call on Rex. I heard from a friend in DC that while Tillerson is an overbearing stuffed shirt (no eye contact from subordinates!) he did function as a check to Trump, keeping him from touching the third rail or the big red nuke button.
Unit2Sucks
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blungld said:


Apologies for the soapboxing. Will be interesting to look back at this in a year. In many ways, I hope I am wildly off. In either case, I pray that the nation comes together and rediscovers ideals over platform.
You may not be wrong on the facts, but I think you will be wildly off on the outcome. 30-40% of the country will reject the argument that collusion is a crime ("show me the words in the constitution") and it will more or less be business as usual. Unless Mueller is sitting on some very explosive information that hasn't even remotely come to light (for example - convincing evidence of communications between Trump and Putin regarding Putin's election assistance), I would be surprised if there is anything that would cause republican leadership to change their position. None of them like Trump personally but they will not jeopardize their ill-gotten political gains by impeaching Trump unless their base demands it and we are quite a long ways away from that.

I'm perfectly open to being wrong here. Perhaps evidence will come out that Trump wears lady clothes or uses women's restrooms (struggling to think of what modern conservatives think is unforgivable - favoring sharia law?), but I highly doubt there is anything that could theoretically make a difference with enough republicans let alone anything that is actually potentially in play. The sorts of things that we like to talk about - collusion, financial crimes, etc. simply won't move the needle. Sad, but that's where I think we are.
AunBear89
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Unit2Sucks said:

blungld said:


Apologies for the soapboxing. Will be interesting to look back at this in a year. In many ways, I hope I am wildly off. In either case, I pray that the nation comes together and rediscovers ideals over platform.
You may not be wrong on the facts, but I think you will be wildly off on the outcome. 30-40% of the country will reject the argument that collusion is a crime ("show me the words in the constitution") and it will more or less be business as usual. Unless Mueller is sitting on some very explosive information that hasn't even remotely come to light (for example - convincing evidence of communications between Trump and Putin regarding Putin's election assistance), I would be surprised if there is anything that would cause republican leadership to change their position. None of them like Trump personally but they will not jeopardize their ill-gotten political gains by impeaching Trump unless their base demands it and we are quite a long ways away from that.

I'm perfectly open to being wrong here. Perhaps evidence will come out that Trump wears lady clothes or uses women's restrooms (struggling to think of what modern conservatives think is unforgivable - favoring sharia law?), but I highly doubt there is anything that could theoretically make a difference with enough republicans let alone anything that is actually potentially in play. The sorts of things that we like to talk about - collusion, financial crimes, etc. simply won't move the needle. Sad, but that's where I think we are.
Trump is their useful idiot. As long as he can hold a pen and sign whatever the Cons put in front of him, they will look the other way on all of his and his crime family's shenanigans. All of the chaos and clown-show stuff surrounding his administration just serves as a smokescreen for the GOP's legislative agenda of enriching the 1% and corporations.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Anarchistbear
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They aren't going to get rid of Trump. Even if- extremely unlikely- they impeach him he'd probably just run as a third party or in their primaries in order"to clear his name," firing up the loonies as he goes while destroying the party. And Mike Pence is nothing but another useful idiot. He's not a great candidate and is unlikely to replicate Trump's magic potion of plutocrats and working class whites.

So, I think they just wait until 2020 and hope he retires, dies or things are so bad that another challenger emerges that can wrestle the nomination; or everybody is happy with their tax cuts and doesn't care.

Another Bear
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I'd be happy if Trump goes third party because that would likely kill the GOP. Given they have courted that demo, then they live and die with it. I doubt he gets to 2020. Too much s h * t hitting the fan on a daily basis. Dotard is firing a cabinet member every week and staffers are leaving faster.

Any way, think Mueller gets his man.
sycasey
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Honestly, the most likely way to bring Trump down is for Democrats to take one or both houses of Congress. Then you get committee chairs, can run investigations and subpoena witnesses, etc. That could potentially drive public opinion to the point where impeachment is a possibility.

Or maybe it's better to just cripple his presidency (blocking his legislative agenda) and beat him in 2020. Either way, it's mostly about winning elections.
Another Bear
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Mueller Just Stepped Over Trump's Red Line

Quote:


The president once warned the prosecutor to stay out of his family business. The reply: subpoenas.

BearNIt
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Another Bear said:

Mueller Just Stepped Over Trump's Red Line

Quote:


The president once warned the prosecutor to stay out of his family business. The reply: subpoenas.


Get ready for a Constitutional Crisis. Will he or won't he? I'm talking about Sessions. Will he fire McCabe right before he gets his pension? That would be a Dirtbag move. Could Trump be setting him up to fail so he can be fired and insert a new AG just in time to fire Mueller?
BearNIt
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sycasey said:

Honestly, the most likely way to bring Trump down is for Democrats to take one or both houses of Congress. Then you get committee chairs, can run investigations and subpoena witnesses, etc. That could potentially drive public opinion to the point where impeachment is a possibility.

Or maybe it's better to just cripple his presidency (blocking his legislative agenda) and beat him in 2020. Either way, it's mostly about winning elections.
I honestly believe that's coming.
blungld
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He can't run as a third party if he is in jail.
Unit2Sucks
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blungld said:

He can't run as a third party if he is in jail.


Says who? He still might get the republican nomination from prison.
Unit2Sucks
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Anyone still feel like Trump knows what "extreme vetting" really means?

Mueller witness was convicted on child porn charge
BearNIt
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This morning we see the real reason for the McCabe firing by Sessions at 10:00 pm on a Friday night. The firing was used to erode the credibility of McCabe as a material witness to the firing of James Comey by the President leading to what many have indicated could be construed as obstruction. This morning the President's lawyer, John Dowd, speaking for the President has sent emails to NBC calling for the ending of the Special Counsel's investigation. Dowd has said that because of the McCabe firing should end the Mueller imvestigation. Dowd goes on to say the former head of the FBI, James Comey, manufactured the investigation based on the fraudulent and corrupt Steele Dossier. Dowd is calling for Rosenstein to end the Russia Collusion investigation which is no where close to coming to its natural end given the witnesses that still need to be interviewed which includes the President, and subpoenas that have been served on the Trump Organization and others. Mueller obviously knows that documents exist which are pertinent to his investigations. Trump and his lawyers are systematically attempting to erode the credibility of any of the witnesses that would testify against him by using in the case of McCabe and Comey their firings for "cause".

Get ready for Mueller's firing. I just might win the pool with my choice of April 1st.

Get ready for a Constitutional Crisis.

Trump will out Nixon, Nixon.

There are two people in the world that Tump will not criticize, Vladimir Putin and Stormy Daniels? The question is why?
bearister
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https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/homenews/administration/378909-ex-cia-director-slams-trump-after-mccabe-firing-youll-be-remembered%3famp

The progression here is termination of Mueller and imposition of Martial Law. tTump sees his only option as burning down Rome. This is "The Red Army is running through the Reich Chancellery on its way to the bunker" mode.
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AunBear89
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Wow! Not only did he drop the "venality" bomb, but "moral turpitude" as well. The gloves are off!
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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