OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

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BearDevil
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In reply to bearister • 9:22a, 6/30/17
bearister;842850314 said:
Nicolle Wallace:
"On her show "Deadline: White House," Wallace said women in the White House needed to join the chorus of criticism. She singled out deputy national security adviser Dina Powell, top Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway, Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos.

"As a woman who was fortunate enough to work in the White House as a public servant, all the women collecting paychecks from the U.S. taxpayers Dina Powell, Kelly Anne Conway, Elaine Chao, Betsy DeVos you should all go on the record and condemn your boss' comments," Wallace, a frequent Trump critic, said. "And you should work behind the scenes to educate him just how offensive they are."

She finished off her remarks by appealing to maternal instincts.

"And finally, most importantly, as the mother of a son, I ask any woman who's defending these comments how they plan to raise good men if the most powerful man in the world gets away with this," Wallace said. Yahoo News


Wallace is pretty sharp. Cal grad, grew in Orinda, one of her sisters played water polo for the Bears. Had a thankless job babysitting Palin for McCain. Weird that other than Kasisch, Sasse, McMullin, Collins, Murkowsky, Flake, Heller, McCain, and Graham, the rest of the GOP appears willing to sink with Trump.
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bearister
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In reply to BearDevil • 10:12a, 6/30/17
BearDevil;842850317 said:
Wallace is pretty sharp. Cal grad, grew in Orinda, one of her sisters played water polo for the Bears. Had a thankless job babysitting Palin for McCain. Weird that other than Kasisch, Sasse, McMullin, Collins, Murkowsky, Flake, Heller, McCain, and Graham, the rest of the GOP appears willing to sink with Trump.


"The moment that they allowed themselves to vote for a man who bragged on tape about assaulting women, appeared in at least two pornos, and once joked about dating his own daughter, they surrendered the mantle of morality.

When they allowed themselves to vote for a man who insulted Mexicans and Muslims, who mocked a disabled reporter, who called for executing the Central Park Five and who had "a long history of racial bias at his family's properties, in New York and beyond," according to an extensive report by The Times, Republicans surrendered the mantle of morality.
Republicans sold their souls to this devil and now are forced to defend as right what they know full well is wrong. They must defend his incessant lying, clear incompetence and dubious dealings. What was once sacrilege among Republicans is now sacrosanct." Charles Blow, NY Times
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calbear93
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In reply to BearDevil • 12:49p, 6/30/17
BearDevil;842850311 said:
There have been years of warning signs about Trump, so still amazed people like Tillerson, Haley, Mattis, and McMaster went to work for him. The Huckabees have really dragged down the GOP and Christianity. Sarah has 3 really little kids and Kelllyanne has 4 young kids. Lots of luck explaining why they went to work for Trump when those kids are young adults. Kasich has teen daughters and he wisely avoided Trump.


Well, Mike Huckabee is intertwined with the false religion of prosperity gospel. I don't really associate those like Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar and Joel Olsteen who think they can pray really hard and get cash from God as really Christians. The person who counsels Trump on his "faith" is also a prosperity gospel preacher. Worshiping the dollar and using God as the means of worshiping the dollar is not exactly Christianity.
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NYCGOBEARS
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In reply to calbear93 • 12:51p, 6/30/17
calbear93;842850373 said:
Well, Mike Huckabee is intertwined with the false religion of prosperity gospel. I don't really associate those like Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar and Joel Olsteen who think they can pray really hard and get cash from God as really Christians. The person who counsels Trump on his "faith" is also a prosperity gospel preacher. Worshiping the dollar and using God as the means of worshiping the dollar is not exactly Christianity.


Preach on, brother!
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calbear93
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In reply to bearister • 12:52p, 6/30/17
bearister;842850327 said:
"The moment that they allowed themselves to vote for a man who bragged on tape about assaulting women, appeared in at least two pornos, and once joked about dating his own daughter, they surrendered the mantle of morality.

When they allowed themselves to vote for a man who insulted Mexicans and Muslims, who mocked a disabled reporter, who called for executing the Central Park Five and who had “a long history of racial bias at his family’s properties, in New York and beyond,” according to an extensive report by The Times, Republicans surrendered the mantle of morality.
Republicans sold their souls to this devil and now are forced to defend as right what they know full well is wrong. They must defend his incessant lying, clear incompetence and dubious dealings. What was once sacrilege among Republicans is now sacrosanct." Charles Blow, NY Times


I know quite a few people who voted for Trump during the presidential election solely due to the Supreme Court. That I can kind of understand, and I was somewhat tempted myself. However, I have no idea how that many people in my party voted for him in the primary when he was so unqualified. We could have had the Supreme Court and still had a president we were proud to lead us. Shame on my party for not being more vocal in calling out someone who clearly is such a horrible role model and unpresidential. Why are they so afraid? Are there really that many in Trump's base that they are willing to alienate those in the party like me?
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NYCGOBEARS
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In reply to calbear93 • 1:02p, 6/30/17
calbear93;842850375 said:
I know quite a few people who voted for Trump during the presidential election solely due to the Supreme Court. That I can kind of understand, and I was somewhat tempted myself. However, I have no idea how that many people in my party voted for him in the primary when he was so unqualified. We could have had the Supreme Court and still had a president we were proud to lead us. Shame on my party for not being more vocal in calling out someone who clearly is such a horrible role model and unpresidential. Why are they so afraid? Are there really that many in Trump's base that they are willing to alienate those in the party like me?

I would've voted for Kasich but alas, he was too sane.
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bearister
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In reply to bearister • 1:07p, 6/30/17
"We're beyond grief and into disbelief," David Axelrod, Obama's old guru, told me. "I feel like a 6-year-old has gotten controls of the 747 and we're all strapped in our seats hoping either he'll land the plane or somebody else will co-pilot. But meanwhile, we're just getting jerked around in turbulence on a constant basis here. It is just debilitating." Maureen Dowd, NY Times
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calbear93
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In reply to NYCGOBEARS • 1:15p, 6/30/17
NYCGOBEARS;842850376 said:
I would've voted for Kasich but alas, he was too sane.


He would have been the best choice. He, Lindsey Graham and Jed Bush have at least shown courage among the candidates in calling out Trump. Cruz was such a kiss-ass that I am glad Trump and he ended up betraying each other.
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BearDevil
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In reply to bearister • 1:26p, 6/30/17
Hope that Kasich, Haley, or Sasse challenge Trump in 2020. All would be big upgrades over Trump or Pence.
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BearChemist
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In reply to bearister • 1:28p, 6/30/17
bearister;842850379 said:
“We’re beyond grief and into disbelief,” David Axelrod, Obama’s old guru, told me. “I feel like a 6-year-old has gotten controls of the 747 and we’re all strapped in our seats hoping either he’ll land the plane or somebody else will co-pilot. But meanwhile, we’re just getting jerked around in turbulence on a constant basis here. It is just debilitating.” Maureen Dowd, NY Times


FWIW, the flight attendants don't seem disturbed at all.
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sycasey
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In reply to calbear93 • 2:24p, 6/30/17
calbear93;842850375 said:
I know quite a few people who voted for Trump during the presidential election solely due to the Supreme Court. That I can kind of understand, and I was somewhat tempted myself. However, I have no idea how that many people in my party voted for him in the primary when he was so unqualified. We could have had the Supreme Court and still had a president we were proud to lead us. Shame on my party for not being more vocal in calling out someone who clearly is such a horrible role model and unpresidential. Why are they so afraid? Are there really that many in Trump's base that they are willing to alienate those in the party like me?


I think the answer to your last question is (sadly) yes.
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ducky23
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In reply to BearDevil • 3:00p, 6/30/17
BearDevil;842850384 said:
Hope that Kasich, Haley, or Sasse challenge Trump in 2020. All would be big upgrades over Trump or Pence.


I think most moderates would agree that Kasich would be ideal in 2020. But does anyone really think he can beat trump? No matter what he does, Trump is still wildly popular amongst his base. If it'll help, I'm willing to switch party affiliation to vote kasich in the primary.
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GB54
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In reply to bearister • 3:14p, 6/30/17
Kasich won one primary, his own state. There's no way he is his party's nominee- far too left for the base
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OdontoBear66
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In reply to ducky23 • 3:52p, 6/30/17
ducky23;842850403 said:
I think most moderates would agree that Kasich would be ideal in 2020. But does anyone really think he can beat trump? No matter what he does, Trump is still wildly popular amongst his base. If it'll help, I'm willing to switch party affiliation to vote kasich in the primary.


+1, except I wouldn't be switching party. Getting the nomination in his party would be harder than winning the election, and that is why would probably never see him. I think he is referred to as a RINO.
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bearister
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In reply to bearister • 6:53p, 6/30/17
GOP Operative Sought Clinton Emails From Hackers, Implied a Connection to Flynn - The Wall Street Journal


https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-activist-who-sought-clinton-emails-cited-trump-campaign-officials-1498872923
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to bearister • 7:16p, 6/30/17
I doubt there will be a republican primary if Trump is still eligible for re-election. If there were he would win going away. Republicans are still overwhelmingly supportive of Trump.
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Strykur
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 8:53p, 6/30/17
Unit2Sucks;842850463 said:
I doubt there will be a republican primary if Trump is still eligible for re-election. If there were he would win going away. Republicans are still overwhelmingly supportive of Trump.


The bigger question who is going to run for the Democrats.
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ducky23
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In reply to Strykur • 9:53p, 6/30/17
Strykur;842850474 said:
The bigger question who is going to run for the Democrats.


I'm still not convinced Bernie is the best choice (and he'll be pretty old) but that would be a very entertaining race (watching two extremes go at it)

I like warren a lot but not sure how appealing she is outside of her base.

And oh god, if booker got the nomination I'd have to choose between trump and a furd. F it, how bad could another four years of trump be? Better dead (from a nuclear holocaust) than red.
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GB54
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In reply to bearister • 10:43p, 6/30/17
The Dems need to rebuild the "Blue Wall" that Clinton lost- someone who can win back Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and at least hold the rest. So, they need someone with ties there or who can talk and relate to normal Americans about health care, globalization, income inequality and the future

Warren has good credibility with the base and is a lot of things Clinton wasn't but I have some doubts about her ability to connect with voters outside of Mass

I love Bernie but he may be too old

Booker is another corporate tool

Biden, too old and too in the way

It might be somebody we don't know all that well yet- Amy Klobuchar, Chris Murphy or a Governor.

Please, no celebrities!
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dajo9
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In reply to GB54 • 3:36a, 7/1/17
GB54;842850489 said:
The Dems need to rebuild the "Blue Wall" that Clinton lost- someone who can win back Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and at least hold the rest. So, they need someone with ties there or who can talk and relate to normal Americans about health care, globalization, income inequality and the future

Warren has good credibility with the base and is a lot of things Clinton wasn't but I have some doubts about her ability to connect with voters outside of Mass

I love Bernie but he may be too old

Booker is another corporate tool

Biden, too old and too in the way

It might be somebody we don't know all that well yet- Amy Klobuchar, Chris Murphy or a Governor.

Please, no celebrities!


I disagree about chasing Michigan and Wisconsin. The politics of resentment are too strong in Midwestern states that unwittingly voted to destroy their economies in the 1980s and are now experiencing the result.

Dems need to focus on diverse, coastal, productive states that are moving forward, like Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Florida.
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GB54
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In reply to dajo9 • 7:25a, 7/1/17
dajo9;842850503 said:
I disagree about chasing Michigan and Wisconsin. The politics of resentment are too strong in Midwestern states that unwittingly voted to destroy their economies in the 1980s and are now experiencing the result.

Dems need to focus on diverse, coastal, productive states that are moving forward, like Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Florida.


That's a prescription for more self- marginalization. Michigan and Wisconsin are traditional democratic bellweathers who strayed because of a historically bad candidate.
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sycasey
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In reply to GB54 • 7:41a, 7/1/17
GB54;842850489 said:
Warren has good credibility with the base and is a lot of things Clinton wasn't but I have some doubts about her ability to connect with voters outside of Mass


Warren is who my mind goes to first, seems to have a kind of Midwestern sensibility and demeanor (Senator from Mass, but grew up in Oklahoma) that theoretically should be able to connect outside of the coasts. She has the populist message that seems like the way to go these days. But she's not the only person who can deliver that message.

Anyway, seems like what the Dems should really do is just let the primaries be open and not throw their weight behind anyone early in the process. To be clear, I don't believe in the conspiracy theories about the 2016 primary being "rigged" against Bernie Sanders or anything (Clinton won because she'd planned to run for much longer and piled up votes early before anyone took Bernie's campaign seriously), but that said, it was pretty clear who the party brass preferred. Let's have none of that this time.
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dajo9
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In reply to GB54 • 8:24a, 7/1/17
GB54;842850512 said:
That's a prescription for more self- marginalization. Michigan and Wisconsin are traditional democratic bellweathers who strayed because of a historically bad candidate.


Your hatred for Hillary really clouds your judgment. Both states have had Republican governors win the last 2 elections. Times change. The Atlantic southeast is growing and trending Democratic. That is the opposite of the upper Midwest.
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GB54
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In reply to dajo9 • 8:50a, 7/1/17
dajo9;842850516 said:
Your hatred for Hillary really clouds your judgment. Both states have had Republican governors win the last 2 elections. Times change. The Atlantic southeast is growing and trending Democratic. That is the opposite of the upper Midwest.[/QUOTEad]

Trump won Wisconsin and Michigan by 1% or less. Both voted for Obama twice in large part because he did some things- like bail out the auto industry. Sanders would have beaten Trump in both cases. Hell even Clinton might have won Wisconsin if she bothered to show up. Trump won NC and Florida much easier. Of course the Democrats should compete there but the folly of the recent Georgia election shows that "not Trump" isn't good enough

As far as Governors go, where isn't the GOP winning- they control 2/3 of the Governors, 2/3 of the state house, the House, Senate and Presidency. I know you think this is all due to (fill in...Russians, Electoral college.. gerrymandering) but the sad truth is the Democratic Party has less power now than since the 1920's. The idea that they can afford to wait for states like NC and Florida to turn blue is like the coming demographic wave they were supposed to ride- remember that?. They will keep losing until they realize that nobody cares about another corporate party that happens to be in favor of transgender bathrooms
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dajo9
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In reply to GB54 • 8:58a, 7/1/17
GB54;842850520 said:
dajo9;842850516 said:
Your hatred for Hillary really clouds your judgment. Both states have had Republican governors win the last 2 elections. Times change. The Atlantic southeast is growing and trending Democratic. That is the opposite of the upper Midwest.[/QUOTEad]

Trump won Wisconsin and Michigan by 1% or less. Both voted for Obama twice in large part because he did some things- like bail out the auto industry. Sanders would have beaten Trump in both cases. Hell even Clinton might have won Wisconsin if she bothered to show up. Trump won NC and Florida much easier. Of course the Democrats should compete there but the folly of the recent Georgia election shows that "not Trump" isn't good enough

As far as Governors go, where isn't the GOP winning- they control 2/3 of the Governors, 2/3 of the state house, the House, Senate and Presidency. I know you think this is all due to (fill in...Russians, Electoral college.. gerrymandering) but the sad truth is the Democratic Party has less power now than since the 1920's. The idea that they can afford to wait for states like NC and Florida to turn blue is like the coming demographic wave they were supposed to ride- remember that?. They will keep losing until they realize that nobody cares about another corporate party that happens to be in favor of transgender bathrooms


You're right in the sense that I want Dems to compete everywhere, I just don't see catering to the upper Midwest is all.
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BearDevil
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In reply to bearister • 9:35a, 7/1/17
Dems' bench is depleted and they have a generational problem. Biden, Bernie, and Warren will be too old in 2020. Additionally don't have any young, charismatic Governors in the pipeline.

Well before Monica, was kinda surprised by the reaction to Bubba in '92. Would have thought that most people would have hailed someone from Hope, AR (also Huckabee's hometown) who became a Rhodes Scholar.

When all the crap about HB2 went down, Springsteen cancelled a show in Greensboro. Was curious if he had a new album, but he was touring a River revival, a 1980 album about industrial decline in the Rust Belt. Deer Hunter had been best picture two years earlier. The Rust Belt decline was well known nearly 40 years ago, but some still believe coal and manufacturing jobs are coming back.

Dems need someone like Tim Ryan, who can speak to middle class fears, but isn't a corporate sell out and doesn't stir up class resentment via the Ivies. Ryan's the right age and background, but not experienced enough. Maybe a Southerner who went to one of the academies and was successful in business. A Dem version of Hillbilly Elegy author JD Vance. Tall order given decades of swing state class resentment about changing demographics and assigning blame to "the other".
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bearister
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In reply to bearister • 3:36p, 7/1/17
https://lawfareblog.com/time-i-got-recruited-collude-russians
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NYCGOBEARS
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In reply to bearister • 4:57p, 7/1/17
bearister;842850579 said:
https://lawfareblog.com/time-i-got-recruited-collude-russians


It's ok. Trump's gonna bring back coal jobs. All 100 of them.
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bearister
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In reply to bearister • 10:30p, 7/1/17
http://billmoyers.com/story/the-trump-resistance-plan-a-timeline-russia-and-president-trump/

A link to send your friends who say: "I just haven't seen any evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump Campaign."
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BearChemist
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In reply to bearister • 8:59a, 7/2/17
bearister;842850650 said:
http://billmoyers.com/story/the-trump-resistance-plan-a-timeline-russia-and-president-trump/

A link to send your friends who say: "I just haven't seen any evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump Campaign.


Dude, it's too long for them to read.
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NYCGOBEARS
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In reply to BearChemist • 9:45a, 7/2/17
BearChemist;842850706 said:
Dude, it's too long for them to read.


That's a whole lotta fake news.
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bearister
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In reply to NYCGOBEARS • 9:53a, 7/2/17
NYCGOBEARS;842850708 said:
That's a whole lotta fake news.


I don't think there is a civil attorney worth his shingle that doesn't think they could prove the collusion charges by a preponderance of the evidence if it was a civil case, nor a prosecutor that doesn't think they could prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt if it was a criminal case (Yes, NYCGB, I know you are funn'in us).

The timeline entry dated February 28, 2017, indicates that the Republican legislature will protect Trump for as long as they think they can get away with it. That is why I am very skeptical that he will ever get impeached or removed under the 25th Amendment, regardless of what the evidence proves. I also think if it gets real hairy for him that Trump will pardon himself and all his players and when that is challenged the SCOTUS will back him.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/politics/wp/2017/05/24/could-trump-issue-himself-a-pardon/
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sycasey
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In reply to bearister • 10:56a, 7/2/17
bearister;842850710 said:
The timeline entry dated February 28, 2017, indicates that the Republican legislature will protect Trump for as long as they think they can get away with it. That is why I am very skeptical that he will ever get impeached or removed under the 25th Amendment.


Only chance is if Dems take the House in 2018. Then you might peel off enough GOP Senators to do it.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to bearister • 11:39a, 7/2/17
Bearister - you can't pardon impeachment. The only fitting punishment for Trump and his cronies is bankruptcy and forcing them to rely on Trumpcare. If he's impeached, bankruptcy to follow because his name will be dirt and that is literally all he sells.
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sp4149
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 12:02p, 7/2/17
When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, they have the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property, as well as require the defendant to put up a performance bond. This provision was placed in the law because the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations often absconded with the assets. An injunction and/or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict.
In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney. Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court, as it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.[2]

Mueller's assembled task force knows RICO prosecutions...

Unit2Sucks;842850727 said:
Bearister - you can't pardon impeachment. The only fitting punishment for Trump and his cronies is bankruptcy and forcing them to rely on Trumpcare. If he's impeached, bankruptcy to follow because his name will be dirt and that is literally all he sells.
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