Trump Administration = Gish Gallop on Human Growth Hormone

I just still don't see any evidence of Russian collusion:

http://billmoyers.com/story/the-trump-resistance-plan-a-timeline-russia-and-president-trump/

BearNIt;842853423 said:

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Looks like it was Kushner and his legal team who disclosed the meeting with the Russian attorney in an effort to get out in front of yet another meeting with a Russian that he did not disclose on his security clearance form. Trumpito Jr. must be pissed that Jared essentially gave him up. Like father like son as it was not that long ago that Papa Kushner who found out that his brother in-law was cooperating with the feds. Papa Kushner hired a high class hooker to sleep with his brother in-law, filmed it and then gave the film to his sister. Dirtbag! Jared has figured out that he wouldn't do well in prison. Is this the start of every man for himself as there has got to be more specific info about meetings with Russians that hasn't been disclosed? Looks like the investigation of shell companies and the movement of money within them and to others may yield some results. It looks like Jared is on the outs with Trump and could be sidelined.

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Going to lead back to the Mercer Family, GOP mega donors. Papa Mercer made billions in hedge funds. Mercers are tight with Kellyanne Conway. Originally backed Cruz, who stunned Trump in Iowa, but too big a weasel to gain traction nationally.

Jared's brother helped them build a data mining operation in San Antonio. They used targeted Facebook ads in swing states/districts. Outsourced a lot of the grunt work to Russia. Spin will hinge on whether was capitalist ingenuity looking for low cost mudslinger providers overseas vs a coordinated effort with a hostile foreign government.

Perfect storm: big $s willing to spend for power and access, focus on emerging technology platforms, a greedy and clueless family, and a declining power looking to create chaos elsewhere.

Cruz's people wouldn't have been as sloppy as the Trump/Kushner crew. Will be interesting to see if Pence is able to shield himself enough. Truly odd and sad that social conservatives allegedly driven by faith will do whatever it takes.

A few months ago when the Trump supporter mantra was that there was no contact, that this was all fake news, and we shouldn't even investigate this, I asked: so if we find out that there WAS contact and that this administration has been lying, will you go on record now as saying that is wrong and you would stop supporting and believing him...or will you start making excuses, quibble about interpretations, and generally just shift your ethics and beliefs to conform to new evidence so that Trump is never wrong, you were never wrong, and Liberals are always wrong. Even after a few friends finally conceded earlier this year and made clear statements that IF THEY WERE LYING ABOUT CONTACT then it is to most likely to cover criminal behavior that should be investigated and prosecuted--basically agreeing that they did in fact have a line that could be crossed by Trump--today they are doing just as I thought and mincing words and changing what they believe is wrong or unethical.

There are serious cognitive bias issues at play and more and more people have set their moral compass as not pro anything just anti-liberal. They have a false and cartoon version of a mythic liberal agenda and it does not matter at all what any person says or does in an objective sense as long as it opposes their fictional boogeyman. It would be fascinating if it weren't so damn scary and unreasonable. These people do not seem to have the capacity to reexamine their assumptions, their conclusions, their sources or information, and how they engage with news, others, and the world.

BearDevil;842853498 said:

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Going to lead back to the Mercer Family, GOP mega donors. Papa Mercer made billions in hedge funds. Mercers are tight with Kellyanne Conway. Originally backed Cruz, who stunned Trump in Iowa, but too big a weasel to gain traction nationally.

Jared's brother helped them build a data mining operation in San Antonio. They used targeted Facebook ads in swing states/districts. Outsourced a lot of the grunt work to Russia. Spin will hinge on whether was capitalist ingenuity looking for low cost mudslinger providers overseas vs a coordinated effort with a hostile foreign government.

Perfect storm: big $s willing to spend for power and access, focus on emerging technology platforms, a greedy and clueless family, and a declining power looking to create chaos elsewhere.

Cruz's people wouldn't have been as sloppy as the Trump/Kushner crew. Will be interesting to see if Pence is able to shield himself enough. Truly odd and sad that social conservatives allegedly driven by faith will do whatever it takes.

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The word sad is being played out, but I can think of no better word to describe how I feel when I think of Trump being lauded at inauguration, taking the nations best gifts, and faith of the country when he knew inside the things he had done in his life and in this election to get there, who he really cares about and his disregard for earnest public service, and was still able to stand there before us all and the legacy of man's greatest nation to date and smile and believe he deserved this. That is truly sad--for him as a human being, as testimony to American decline, and for his sincere if misguided supporters who want so badly to be heard and helped in an evolving world of inequality--whose own personal sadness has been hijacked as a political tool.

As we watch the twists and turns of this play out there some truly basic questions I am astounded that are not being asked in any substantive or introspective way--they are obscured by technical, legal, and partisan political speak...but these are questions a child would ask:

1) You lied over and over, why should we believe you now?

2) If you are innocent why are you acting guilty?

3) Why did Russia want you to win?

4) Why aren't you angry about Russian attack on our country?

5) Why do you not support things that the majority of Americans want and why do you call people names all the time? Aren't you supposed to be President for everyone?

6) Is it possible for you to be a good President anymore, and should you maybe step down so someone better can try?

Blungld- they know what's going on but they just don't care. I guess the only news is that it's not just the alt-right, it's a large majority of "conservative" voters. They were perfectly happy to go along with the birther movement and no matter what comes from the Trump investigation they will stand united because they wanted their agenda and don't care how it's accomplished. They may \_(ツ_/ and say they wish Trump didn't collude with Russia or commit whatever other bad acts can be proven but at the end of the day they will be happy because they won. There literally isn't anything that Trump could have done that would draw their ire because the ends justify the means.

None of this should be at all surprising any more.

What I don't understand is the unwavering support by evangelicals of a man(Trump) who has been unfaithful to at least one wife, been married 3 times, doesn't seem all that religious, has lied multiple times, and supports autocrats. They appeared to have sold out to Trump who has given them nothing. There also seems to be an embracing of Russia by evangelicals and other conservatives. Can somebody explain what is going on?

They only care about that stuff when they can use it against democrats. Evangelical leaders have been clear they don't have to approve of Trump as a person as long as his policies work for them and he pays at least a little lip service to their religion. I think he's even stopped paying lip service to the religion so that part was optional. If he told them how he really felt about abortion that may be a bridge too far but who is to say at this point.

While the posts here are generally correct, what is being left out is that as long as the GOP controls Congress and Trump controls the executive branch there is no legal mechanism to bring this all to an end. Everything rides on the 2018 midterms. Everything.

I agree dajo. If video tape emerges of Trump and Putin meeting in person and discussing their plans to funnel Russian money into his campaign and have Putin hack voting machines and as an aside Trump were to regale Putin with his favorite sexual assaults, republicans in congress would merely \_(ツ_/. This group will not self-regulate.

BearNIt;842853515 said:

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What I don't understand is the unwavering support by evangelicals of a man(Trump) who has been unfaithful to at least one wife, been married 3 times, doesn't seem all that religious, has lied multiple times, and supports autocrats. They appeared to have sold out to Trump who has given them nothing. There also seems to be an embracing of Russia by evangelicals and other conservatives. Can somebody explain what is going on?

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At least Trump was interviewed by 87 year old Pat Robertson. Also photographed with a bunch of evangelical leaders laying their hands on Trump in the Oval Office. Ultimately both Trump and his enablers will hurt both the GOP and Christianity.

An old friend, Tom Krattenmaker, writes extensively on religion and public life. Wrote for the Daily Cal as a freshman before transferring. Now at the Yale Divinity School. Has written three books and the middle one about younger evangelicals and their evolving views on public policy is encouraging.

BearDevil;842853533 said:

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An old friend, Tom Krattenmaker, writes extensively on religion and public life. Wrote for the Daily Cal as a freshman before transferring. Now at the Yale Divinity School. Has written three books and the middle one about younger evangelicals and their evolving views on public policy is encouraging.

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The younger generation is the primary source of hope here. Older Boomers who support Trump and the current GOP are pretty much lost.

sycasey;842853539 said:

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The younger generation is the primary source of hope here. Older Boomers who support Trump and the current GOP are pretty much lost.

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LOL, as if younger people who support Trump are going to be our saviors. The younger ones are more the alt-right crowd and seem to be the unequivocal Trump supporters. The older ones are center right guys like Odonto who plugged their nose and voted for him.

If you want to defeat Trump (or any republican) you have to get out the vote. That's the biggest question - what will it take to get more people to vote in these battleground states.

Unit2Sucks;842853542 said:

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LOL, as if younger people who support Trump are going to be our saviors. The younger ones are more the alt-right crowd and seem to be the unequivocal Trump supporters. The older ones are center right guys like Odonto who plugged their nose and voted for him.

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Yes, but the younger part of Trump's base is a decided minority. Only 37% of those under 30 voted for him, lowest of any age group. You can't win an election on that, no matter how much help you get from Electoral College distribution. His support is largely from people in their 40s and older.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html

BearDevil;842853533 said:

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At least Trump was interviewed by 87 year old Pat Robertson. Also photographed with a bunch of evangelical leaders laying their hands on Trump in the Oval Office. Ultimately both Trump and his enablers will hurt both the GOP and Christianity.

An old friend, Tom Krattenmaker, writes extensively on religion and public life. Wrote for the Daily Cal as a freshman before transferring. Now at the Yale Divinity School. Has written three books and the middle one about younger evangelicals and their evolving views on public policy is encouraging.

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They needed to bring in a priest for an exorcism. THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU!

Maybe I misread your prior comment. I thought you were saying that the idea of converting older Trump voters was a lost cause but there was hope of converting younger Trump voters. I think the chances are pretty low that you convince a young Trump voter to vote for a democrat but perhaps you could convince them not to vote. That seemed to be Trump's best angle - suppressing democrat votes so perhaps it can work in reverse.

I think democrats should focus on increasing youth voting which will require better messaging and policy. Maybe a bunch of those disaffected middle-aged and up working class voters will like the message as well and will be fed up with Trump but I'm not sure how likely people like that are to switch.

sycasey;842853550 said:

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Yes, but the younger part of Trump's base is a decided minority. Only 37% of those under 30 voted for him, lowest of any age group. You can't win an election on that, no matter how much help you get from Electoral College distribution. His support is largely from people in their 40s and older.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html

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Unit2Sucks;842853559 said:

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I think democrats should focus on increasing youth voting which will require better messaging and policy. Maybe a bunch of those disaffected middle-aged and up working class voters will like the message as well and will be fed up with Trump but I'm not sure how likely people like that are to switch.

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Democrats have no chance with Pelosi and Schumer running the show, which is why they will go nowhere next year.

Unit2Sucks;842853542 said:

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LOL, as if younger people who support Trump are going to be our saviors. The younger ones are more the alt-right crowd and seem to be the unequivocal Trump supporters. The older ones are center right guys like Odonto who plugged their nose and voted for him.

If you want to defeat Trump (or any republican) you have to get out the vote. That's the biggest question - what will it take to get more people to vote in these battleground states.

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Less voter suppression antics by Republicans in the absence of any real evidence of illegal voting. Dems have to engage Americans and offer an alternative to Republican ideas that leave people behind and work with Republican on legislation that benefits all people. They have to appeal to independents by coming up with dinner table fixes for problems that affect everyone. There has to be a middle ground where no one gets everything that they want but instead gets what they need to prosper. People will eat **** for only so long before they decide they have nothing to lose.

Unit2Sucks;842853559 said:

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Maybe I misread your prior comment. I thought you were saying that the idea of converting older Trump voters was a lost cause but there was hope of converting younger Trump voters. I think the chances are pretty low that you convince a young Trump voter to vote for a democrat but perhaps you could convince them not to vote. That seemed to be Trump's best angle - suppressing democrat votes so perhaps it can work in reverse.

I think democrats should focus on increasing youth voting which will require better messaging and policy. Maybe a bunch of those disaffected middle-aged and up working class voters will like the message as well and will be fed up with Trump but I'm not sure how likely people like that are to switch.

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Sure, I largely agree with that.

Strykur;842853568 said:

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Democrats have no chance with Pelosi and Schumer running the show, which is why they will go nowhere next year.

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I hear you but McConnell and Ryan aren't exactly worldbeaters either. We get the government we deserve and it looks like we deserve a really crappy government.

Strykur;842853568 said:

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Democrats have no chance with Pelosi and Schumer running the show, which is why they will go nowhere next year.

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You post these little one liner digs all the time without much real insight. So here you are again, and though there is all this pretty heinous crap going on, you don't post any kind of mea culpa or expression of remorse about the turn your party has taken, you still think the appropriate and relevant response is be combative and make some anti-liberal or anti-democrat statement? Do you think that maybe this might be a time for introspection and considering whether your political actions/statements lead to immoral results that are actually in conflict with your beliefs? Maybe humility and cooperation should preside over dogmatic party aspersions right now?

blungld;842853592 said:

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You post these little one liner digs all the time without much real insight. So here you are again, and though there is all this pretty heinous crap going on, you don't post any kind of mea culpa or expression of remorse about the turn your party has taken, you still think the appropriate and relevant response is be combative and make some anti-liberal or anti-democrat statement? Do you think that maybe this might be a time for introspection and considering whether your political actions/statements lead to immoral results that are actually in conflict with your beliefs? Maybe humility and cooperation should preside over dogmatic party aspersions right now?

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Nope, he thinks Trump is great, full stop. That's been made abundantly clear.

Unit2Sucks;842853590 said:

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I hear you but McConnell and Ryan aren't exactly worldbeaters either. We get the government we deserve and it looks like we deserve a really crappy government.

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I am totally convinced McConnell will screw up the healthcare replace and try a half-assed repeal this summer, Ryan is a total lapdog hack who is fixated on tax reform and incapable of doing anything else without other party ideologues to prop himself up otherwise, but without the healthcare replace or repeal, Ryan tax reform is DOA, and they will both screwed. The House in 2018 is a bit of a wash but the GOP will pick up seats in the Senate, but right now they are running in quicksand.

blungld;842853592 said:

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You post these little one liner digs all the time without much real insight. So here you are again, and though there is all this pretty heinous crap going on, you don't post any kind of mea culpa or expression of remorse about the turn your party has taken, you still think the appropriate and relevant response is be combative and make some anti-liberal or anti-democrat statement? Do you think that maybe this might be a time for introspection and considering whether your political actions/statements lead to immoral results that are actually in conflict with your beliefs? Maybe humility and cooperation should preside over dogmatic party aspersions right now?

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I am a registered Democrat, far-right but definitely not on board with the GOP. There is nothing heinous going on, just a non-stop monsoon of fake news crap spewed by a delirious left-wing that has become a marginalized super-minority and being trampled by a resurgent right. The left in America is losing, has no idea how to respond, and the Russophobia hysteria is its last desperate attempt to stop the right wing takeover. They have failed, the Democratic Party is failing, YOU are failing.

Leftists are a cancer in this republic, and need to be destroyed. I have gone full blown reactionary after seeing the Student Union attacked when Milo came to campus.

sycasey;842853593 said:

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Nope, he thinks Trump is great, full stop. That's been made abundantly clear.

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At least YOU get it.

BearNIt;842853515 said:

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What I don't understand is the unwavering support by evangelicals of a man(Trump) who has been unfaithful to at least one wife, been married 3 times, doesn't seem all that religious, has lied multiple times, and supports autocrats. They appeared to have sold out to Trump who has given them nothing. There also seems to be an embracing of Russia by evangelicals and other conservatives. Can somebody explain what is going on?

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For a large number of people faith=obedience. And symbols=truth rather than metaphor. There is a lot of black and white thinking in the religious sphere and a lot of demonization of thought and change. It is conservative in the sense that it exists to conserve things they way they are thought to be, told to be, or used to be. It's not a good training ground for getting past rhetoric and it makes the "faithful" very susceptible to propaganda. The Republicans support a few symbolic divisive issues and that makes them Christian without any real analysis of what is a real Christian position and the real moral empathetic position. Christ would not be: pro-gun, pro-wealth, pro-death penalty, anti-gay marriage, worried about transgender bathrooms...etc. But it is easy to push people's buttons and make them BELIEVE that these are issues of faith because it feeds the conservativism of avoiding change and not having to think beyond black and white symbols (or specific interpretations of text that they believe are canon).

A large number of these Republican politicians are NOT Christian in practice or belief in ANY meaningful way, but they are perfectly happy to say the word God, Christmas, attack gays, and a few other dog whistle expressions so that the rabid will bark along with them. This isn't what faith or spirituality looks like. Our souls and the eternal truths of the Universe are not a list of things to hate, simplistic rules, and people to be mad at. The laws of nature are not "conserve things the way they were" or to be stubborn and self-interested. At the most basic level, the Universe is about change and entropy, and spirituality and faith are journeys of growth, tolerance, humility, the sacrifice of ego, giving, and acceptance. Show me one great spiritual leader or creator of faith whose position was "keep things exactly how they are and hate ideas that are different"?

Trumps action and his obvious lack of actual faith or belief are not the issues, he like everything the masses follow is a symbol. He LOOKS more like the past and what feels comfortable so that must be the moral Christian position (and it is anti-scary liberal). There is next to no personal inventory of what party and policy actually looks like to do work that is more Christian and consistent with Jesus teaching. By in large these are people who worry more about looking, thinking, and acting like everyone else, and for whom saying you are a good person is more important than being a good person. Faith is obedience. Good looks like wealthy smiling white people.

Short answer: for a not unsubstancial percentage of Americans, Trump is a good guy because he said so...and because he is a white male and not a scary looking Liberal.

I do find the evangelical support for Trump really bizarre, my aunt and uncle are not ideological partisans, but as evangelical Catholics, went with Trump by default.

Strykur;842853594 said:

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Leftists are scum and need to be destroyed.

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Time to take stock of yourself and maybe get some help.

Strykur;842853596 said:

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I do find the evangelical support for Trump really bizarre.

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On that we agree, it just doesn't make sense. See, the right and the commie left can agree on some things.

blungld;842853598 said:

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Time to take stock of yourself and maybe get some help.

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Leftists (YOU) need help! Turn off the CNN and take a break.

Hmmm, some nasty comments got cleaned up?

blungld;842853502 said:

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The word sad is being played out, but I can think of no better word to describe how I feel when I think of Trump being lauded at inauguration, taking the nations best gifts, and faith of the country when he knew inside the things he had done in his life and in this election to get there, who he really cares about and his disregard for earnest public service, and was still able to stand there before us all and the legacy of man's greatest nation to date and smile and believe he deserved this. That is truly sad--for him as a human being, as testimony to American decline, and for his sincere if misguided supporters who want so badly to be heard and helped in an evolving world of inequality--whose own personal sadness has been hijacked as a political tool.

As we watch the twists and turns of this play out there some truly basic questions I am astounded that are not being asked in any substantive or introspective way--they are obscured by technical, legal, and partisan political speak...but these are questions a child would ask:

1) You lied over and over, why should we believe you now?

2) If you are innocent why are you acting guilty?

3) Why did Russia want you to win?

4) Why aren't you angry about Russian attack on our country?

5) Why do you not support things that the majority of Americans want and why do you call people names all the time? Aren't you supposed to be President for everyone?

6) Is it possible for you to be a good President anymore, and should you maybe step down so someone better can try?

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1) You lied over and over, why should we believe you now?

[U]Answer[/U]: I never told one lie. You are twisting words, taking things out of context and doing fancy editing of past comments. It is the Clintons and Obama who have constantly lied and you refuse to call them on it.

2) If you are innocent why are you acting guilty?

[U]Answer[/U]: How do you define "acting guilty?" You are playing a semantics game pushed by the liberal media. We have reviewed Fox News transcripts and all statements are consistent. When we refuse to play into the liberal media narrative we are accused of "acting guilty." There has always been complete transparency


3) Why did Russia want you to win?

[U]Answer[/U]: Russia wanted Hillary to win, not me. They know that she is weak and corrupt and that they could run roughshod over her. I've heard that the polls showing Hillary would win by a landslide were manipulated by Russian bots in order to discourage voter turnout for me. Sean Hannity has unnamed sources that confirm this.


4) Why aren't you angry about Russian attack on our country?

[U]Answer[/U]: I am not angry because their plot failed. Hillary lost

5) Why do you not support things that the majority of Americans want and why do you call people names all the time? Aren't you supposed to be President for everyone?


[U]Answer[/U]: My entire platform is supported by the Silent Majority of Americans and any poll suggesting otherwise is a false representation by the liberal media. I don't call people names, you call my family names. I am the President of the entire nation but those on the far left refuse to acknowledge that I am their President.

6) Is it possible for you to be a good President anymore, and should you maybe step down so someone better can try?

[U]Answer[/U]: I have always been and always will be one of the best Presidents in history. Only enemies of the state would want me to step down in order to weaken the Republic. There is no living person who would be a better President than I am.

bearister;842853688 said:

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1) You lied over and over, why should we believe you now?

[U]Answer[/U]: I never told one lie. You are twisting words, taking things out of context and doing fancy editing of past comments. It is the Clintons and Obama who have constantly lied and you refuse to call them on it.

2) If you are innocent why are you acting guilty?

[U]Answer[/U]: How do you define "acting guilty?" You are playing a semantics game pushed by the liberal media. We have reviewed Fox News transcripts and all statements are consistent. When we refuse to play into the liberal media narrative we are accused of "acting guilty." There has always been complete transparency


3) Why did Russia want you to win?

[U]Answer[/U]: Russia wanted Hillary to win, not me. They know that she is weak and corrupt and that they could run roughshod over her. I've heard that the polls showing Hillary would win by a landslide were manipulated by Russian bots in order to discourage voter turnout for me. Sean Hannity has unnamed sources that confirm this.


4) Why aren't you angry about Russian attack on our country?

[U]Answer[/U]: I am not angry because their plot failed. Hillary lost

5) Why do you not support things that the majority of Americans want and why do you call people names all the time? Aren't you supposed to be President for everyone?


[U]Answer[/U]: My entire platform is supported by the Silent Majority of Americans and any poll suggesting otherwise is a false representation by the liberal media. I don't call people names, you call my family names. I am the President of the entire nation but those on the far left refuse to acknowledge that I am their President.

6) Is it possible for you to be a good President anymore, and should you maybe step down so someone better can try?

[U]Answer[/U]: I have always been and always will be one of the best Presidents in history. Only enemies of the state would want me to step down in order to weaken the Republic. There is no living person who would be a better President than I am.

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Somewhere in there the child started crying.

blungld;842853705 said:

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Somewhere in there the child started crying.

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Checking in with the enemy at Fox News for 5 minutes. Kimberly Guillfoyle, Jesse Waters, and Meghan McCain were saying how Trump and his family are selfless patriots that have made big sacrifices for the country and they were incredulous that Juan Williams said the evidence suggests otherwise. God Almighty did Gavin Newsome luck out. He would have to shear his genitals off if he was still stuck with her.

sycasey;842853539 said:

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The younger generation is the primary source of hope here. Older Boomers who support Trump and the current GOP are pretty much lost.

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Sanders beat Clinton by more than 2:1 in the youth vote. He also did better than Obama did with this segment.Though Clinton won youth in the general vs Trump she did not perform as well as Obama did and this cost her particularly in swing states. This is a good prospect for the Dems with another candidate and another message especially if they can ramp up turn out as well.

GB54;842853713 said:

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This is a good prospect for the Dems with another candidate and another message especially if they can ramp up turn out as well.

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No, it's actually the opposite.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/07/13/prof-gen-z-more-conservative-millennials/

GB54;842853713 said:

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Sanders beat Clinton by more than 2:1 in the youth vote. He also did better than Obama did with this segment.Though Clinton won youth in the general vs Trump she did not perform as well as Obama did and this cost her particularly in swing states. This is a good prospect for the Dems with another candidate and another message especially if they can ramp up turn out as well.

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Yup. Just by virtue of who she is and her long history, Clinton was not and could not be the same draw for the youth vote that Obama was (and Sanders might have been). Still, that's three straight Presidential votes that the Democrat has won by a blowout margin, which does not bode well for Republicans in the future, as Millennials age up. Democrats should lean into this generation's wants. Well, really both parties should, but for Republicans it's going to be a longer road.

Strykur;842853594 said:

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Leftists are a cancer in this republic, and need to be destroyed. I have gone full blown reactionary after seeing the Student Union attacked when Milo came to campus.

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So I'm guessing that when Trump pulls an Assad and gasses the people's republic of Berkeley you'll be cheering rather than supporting impeachment.